We need a political party that will…

[Skippp]

I work in finance and this country is on the brink of collapse. It’s spending too much, it’s not growing the economy and needs someone to come in and make good decisions quickly if we are to survive. It’s in a really serious state now and action must be taken. I’vote Labour, and did so hoping Keir would be brave enough to take the hard decisions needed but he’s been a pathetic wet blanket. We need a government who:

1. get rid of the triple lock. It’s laughably unaffordable.
2. reassess the whole benefits system and get rid of disability payments for anything but the most severe conditions, increasing the amounts to those who have these conditions.
3. restrict benefit payments to those born outwith the UK to those that have been in full time work for a large proportion of their adult lives here.
4. Reduce the minimum wage to help companies hire again.
5. Reduce housing benefit. People will have to move to somewhere cheaper or landlords will have to drop prices to what people can afford.
6. Go to an insurance backed healthcare system like they enjoy in Europe.
7. Ditch 95% of planning regulation and get Britain building again.
8. ditch net zero. No one is going to run a successful business in a country with the highest energy costs on the planet.
9. Reopen Scotland oil and gas production (inc refineries) and explore for more areas.
10. Simplify income taxes. Roll income tax into NICs. Give everyone child care hours, child benefit, personal allowance and increase tax rates to pay for this. Stop artificially restricting people from earning more.
11. Simplify VAT. Drop the threshold to £20k to ensure no one has a ceiling on earnings.
12. Simplify IHT. 5% on everything. No nil rates or exemptions.
13. rejoin the single market and customs union.
14. Explain policies better! Tell people how unaffordable the triple lock etc is. Tell them what the single market and customs union non is and why you’re rejoining. Tell people what the ‘bond markets’ are and why they’re important. Tell people why paying for rich people’s child care is much better for the economy than forcing high earners to drop their hours.
15. Probably ought to start deporting economic migrants with no right to stay quickler to throw some red meat to reform voters.

We need a party to take on ALL of these policies and move AT PACE on them. Who’s the party that will do this? I thought it was Labour but BOY was I wrong on that!

What are people adding to the list?

It never ceases to amaze me how many of the posters with views like this claim to be erstwhile Labour voters at a time when the Labour Party is the furthest right it’s been in my long life.

So many people want to go back to the good old days of workhouses!

So depressing!

What do you suggest? What do you suggest we do? We have no money, the welfare bill is increasing. We are very near to falling into an inescapable debt crisis. What are you going to cut instead of welfare?

Why does that strike you as odd? When I’ve voted Labour I’ve voted for centrist parties. Tony Blair was a centrist. Ed Miliband was a centrist. Ok I loathed Corbyn but voted Labour cause of my good local MP and Boris was an arsehole but Keir is centrist. The ‘i won’t be in hock to the bonds market’ Andy Burnham comment horrified me. How thick can you get? They won’t get my vote next time if they go further to the left.

Why does everyone assume the answer has to be cuts, and cuts that invariably affect those at the bottom of the heap? A lot of the problem stems from greedy underpaying employers. The NMW, and salaries generally, need to realistically reflect the cost of living, so that working people aren't in the absurd position of having to claim UC and sometimes still not being able to put a roof over their heads. Caps on sky-high mortgages and rents are also needed, and tighter penalties for tax dodgers and the minority (because it is a minority) of benefit claimants who are genuinely scamming the system. These measures wouldn't fix the problem entirely, but they'd certainly help.

There is no way we will be going back to free movement of people when the public's number one concern is immigration.

I think PIP and DLA will need to be linked to the actual costs of a disability. I have had this discussion on the boards before and it gets very heated and nasty as it's a very emotive subject, but what choice do we have to get costs under control?

Some disabilities would have a far higher cost than current PIP rates - e g. paralysed people that need an airway nurse over night. I would presume people with depression/anxiety have relatively low associated costs - although I await the heated posts telling me how very expensive it is to have depression.

If someone says they have to pay someone to do something they should be accountable to prove it if audited (money stopped if no evidence). Family should not be allowed to be paid to do the person's care work as too much scope for exploiting the system.

That's why a falling global population would be the best thing to happen to the Earth even if that's difficult for economies.

Well they can’t go much further right.

@Winter2020I agree with you - ultimately, lots of people say that they would like to be in the single market, but the majority disappears when you spell out that it includes FOM. So closer is the best that can be got!

Which is why I worry a lot about the ramifications of an assisted dying bill at a time when certain sectors of the population are increasingly being vilified and treated as a burden.

You are having a laugh aren't you? A Workers Rights Act and a Renters Rights Act. What is right wing about either of those?

But it doesn’t work. When the NMW goes up the cost of your supermarket food goes up because all the farm workers, warehouse staff, packing staff and shop workers are on that and it just gets added to the cost of the goods.

And when that’s too high we just import it from places that don’t have the labour laws or welfare laws we have. Eg at the moment the UK allows Ukrainian egg to be imported without tariffs. Their costs are so much lower than ours because they are using the cage systems banned here that were sold over there.

There is no sign of house building stalling in my area. All our beautiful green fields are being built on in my lovely market town.

Same

Well not the poorest and most disadvantaged people even poorer and more disadvantaged. Tax the big corporations who do evade tax for one thing.

So if the NHS provides these aids then somehow they magically don't cost the government anything?
They still have to be paid for somehow

Yes, this shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what disability benefits are for. Removing them will force a lot of disabled people OUT of the workforce

Also disability benefits are around 6% of the total benefits bill and therefore an absolutely minute % of overall government spend. Removing them will achieve the sum total of fuck all except to lose the tax payments of the currently working disabled.

Any actual economist would have run these numbers before spouting off a load of disabilist nonsense

Makes the rest of OPs "manifesto" pretty questionable too if they can miss something this basic.

Frankly, I'd probably vote for any party that promised to make a bonfire out of the 23,000 pages of tax code which is an albatross around all our necks.

What about a flat rate of 25% on every pound earned including on pensions, loan interest and investments over the basic state pension rate. No employee NICs. A flat rate of 5% on all intergenerational transfers, embracing gifts and IHT, from £5,000 upwards.

A simple poll tax on every adult not in full time education to fund local services, plus a land tax payable per square metre of useable space.

Business taxation levied at 18% on net profit, but few allowances: no investment deductions, no asset write downs or depreciation. Two business rates -- one local, and a second national rate - for all businesses, with high street retail charity shops just paying the local element. Mandatory pension contributions for all employees including all part time staff.

Just a back of the fag packet general outline. I haven't mentioned VAT or the benefit side of the equation, which would have to be considered, and obviously I can already pick huge holes in my own argument but as a starting point covering half a page of A4.

PS. I am not an economist, nor an accountant.

Yes, but there's a balance that should be struck if we want to avoid widespread human suffering.

South Korea is the most obvious cautionary tale.

In 2000, their average citizen was aged 32.
Today, it is 46
By 2060, it is projected to be above 60.

South Korea’s median age has jumped from ~32 (2000), to ~46 today and is projected to be 61-64 by 2060.

Within the space of a lifetime, the country's overall population will have more than halved, and the remaining population being comprised mainly of people of traditional retirement age, and only a very small portion being children.

Obviously, that has profoundly impacted things like pensions and even the concept of retirement, and it's worsening at an increasing rapid pace. Its not just an economic crisis either, but a cultural one.

The UK's currently trajectory is one of meaningful aging, but at a more gradual rate. It's still a huge challenge that will ultimately need to see society redesigned, but sudden "collapse" isn't a real risk in current trends. We do get much closer to that, though, if we were to suddenly introduce something like net zero immigration - as could be on the cards.

When you're in a plane, your ultimate end destination is the ground. Ideally, that's with a slow descent and graceful landing, not a vertical nosedive.

Much of the tax code is anti-avoidance rules, reliefs, case law codifications, administrative rules and provisions for international compatability. You'd be lucky if your changes trimmed a couple of hundred pages.

No point picking it all apart since you acknowledge its full of huge holes, but the underlying principle of a flat tax rate is obviously hugely regressive.

You'd be shifting the tax burden away from the wealthy and more onto the average low or middle income worker. With less disposable income, your suppress "demand" which is the primary driver of the economy.

You widen inequality, which reliably suppresses growth and productivity, and is likely to result in increased long term social care costs.

There's a reason that flat-tax rates are seldom used in developed economies - because they're harmful to them.

Ditto, most major economies have similarly extensive tax legislation - because the contents are either good or necessary.

Define the costs of a disability.

I have an adult relative who is severely disabled. They have never worked as scemes to help young people into work were deemed to be too complicated and unworkable for them.
They have round the clock care 24/7 for which their carer received £75 a week to provide (right up until they became a pensioner and this was withdrawn).

There is no financial way to prove this happens, but if you wish to remove the carers allowance and pay for the care needed, you will need at least four people to cover the 168 hurs paid to quantify it. Minimum wage is £12.71. This comes out at £2135.28 an additional cost to the taxpayer of £2060 a week. You will also need to provide a bigger house for the extra person.

Its hard because you don't know what people need for their individual disability my biggest cost is taxis as I have consultants scattered around the country im under 5 different trusts currently. But I don't see how anyone apart from me would know that as there will be people with the same condition as me but for e.g. live in london or able to drive who wouldn't have them costs

Carers save this country an absolute fortune and their paid pittance for it and treat like shit.

Disability Benefits are a huge outlier in the UKthough. In the tax year 2019-20 we spent £14bn on PIP. The equivalent now is £25bn and it’s forecast to rise to £32bn in 2029-30 (all real terms rates). That’s just not at all feasible. In other EU countries similar disability benefits rose during covid and have now dropped back to pre Covid rates. That drop hasn’t happened here. Instead disability rates have soared. What is going on? Have we got 2.5 x sicker than any other EU country? I think you’ll find it’s worth taking a look at.