To wonder why people choose to live in London?

[Cantbloodyrememberthenameonthread]

I always wonder. And reading a recent thread prompted me to ask the question. Why do people do it by choice? People complain about the house prices (rightly), ulez, nursery fees, cost of everything being more expensive, commutes, tubes etc.

if you’re not absolutely tied to London for work or health or I guess family. Why do you choose to live there when there are so many cheaper easier lifestyle options in the country?

As loads of people have said in this thread, the long term lack of a proper house building programme is probably the single biggest problem London faces and has numerous knock on negative effects.

But that doesn't answer the question. What in your view - your own words - is an "original Londoner"?

Im honestly curious as there are quite a lot of internal contradictions in your posts.

Look, the issue is right there in the article. Lambeth Council has lost 5000 houses. Thatcher selling off housing followed by councils and landlords selling up to big developers is part of the issue. Why not lobby the councils instead of haranguing people on Mumsnet for buying fish from the local fishmonger instead of Qatari Holdings LLC (because they, of course, are extremely committed to economic, racial and social diversity 🙄)?

My grandmother and her sisters were all born in a Victorian workers cottage not far from Brick Lane. Are you telling me that my great grandparents welcomed the influx of 'others' there? Who are the 'original' residents in that instance? And who do you think the 'original' owners of the Georgian villas in Camberwell and Brixton were?

It almost sounds like your definition is strictly @Goldenbear and your relatives who have been priced out?

I also don't think anyone on this thread has said that gentrification doesn't come with issues? And you haven't answer about your role in that in wherever it is you've moved to.

There is never going to be a long term house building programme in London. The land is already developed. In the 1930s there were still farms all over the place. The land was empty and full of wildlife. It was easily to build build build. All that land has gone. You can tinker trying to build on a plot here and a plot there and start of build flats on local amenities which are forced further and further out the city, but we are talking small fry amounts of building- never will match demand. High rise are toxic to everyone. They are depressing, non neighbourly and block out the sky and also don’t cater for families. London is full and it’s time everyone accepts that.

You could very much get me onto my hobby horse of actual land availability (loads around that is either available or currently used for low-value non-housing purposes) and in particular the kind of medium density housing London so desperately needs!

Meanwhile walk in N Norfolk in harvesting season and your pores and hair will be clogged with dust. And you’ll want to keep your windows closed on muck spreading days. And crop spraying days.

(I have never developed filthy fingernails in London, nor black snot, the other big myth)

There aren't internal contradictions at all? In what way? What are yo confused by?

An original Londoner is someone like in the article I linked you, if you have been born and brought up there or even lived there for a long time I certainly think those people should be considered and not just forgotten about.

But it’s not going to be enough and when you build on this low quality land you change the nature of an area.

for instance in my area we had a bit of industrial bit near a railway line. There was a dump, there were some warehouses, a few companies there. Quite a useful bit of land that was used by a lot of people and bu convenient. I am sure your argument would have been what the council did- it was great land to develop so they did. But that land is now now lost to high rise when actually it was really useful to those businesses and locals who used the dump. Now it’s is lost forever and I’m really annoyed by it. We don’t need to build on every scrap of land going. We could turn some of that land into parks if necessary.

The way you put it though was not just “I prefer it in the Welsh hills - you spoke as though London was inherently disgusting.

It is dirty, noisy and run-down. - I’ve never found it to be any of these things. Yes, there’s more noise than in an isolated village, for example, but that’s to be expected.

You were also incredibly dramatic as pps have pointed out-

"... choking on the fumes ... I came home and went straight into the shower and had to scrape the black filth from under my finger nails."

And the final “phew!” was just the icing on the cake of ridiculousness.

Btw - I love Wales and spend a lot of holidays there!

I hate London. I have to go several times a year for work and I hate it. It’s dirty, dangerous, and full of materialistic rubbish - who needs a thousand clothes shops, a thousand furniture stores etc. It’s based on consumerism. The transport is a pain in the ass. It’s sticky, cramped, sweaty. You can’t get anywhere quickly because it’s such a bind. You are trapped in by buildings all around that are too high. I live in a small market town and it’s bliss. I can walk to all amenities within 10 minutes and it’s peaceful, clean and safe. I have so much nature on my doorstep but can be in a coffee shop easily too. London just screams excess to me. It’s an attack on the senses.

No idea why people say best city in the world. I’ve lived in Tokyo. It’s much much cooler than London could ever be.

It doesn’t suit you, in other words.

I have to add though, the consumerism bit is only a tiny fraction of the city where only tourists ever go.

I haven’t been to those “west end shops” type parts of London for years (theatre districts yes but not the shopping areas) and I live in London.

An original Londoner is someone like in the article I linked you, if you have been born and brought up there or even lived there for a long time I certainly think those people should be considered and not just forgotten about.

We toyed with leaving London and looked at some houses in an area popular with DFL or whatever the term is. A neighbour of a house said something like “our dc are getting priced out”. Welcome to my world! 😆

Tokyo is absolutely full of materialism. I know people who go there basically just to shop. You can argue that it's a more enjoyable experience or different high end or cooler brands, but it's incredibly materialistic.

I feel like posts like the one above - ‘dirty, cramped, high buildings, consumerist’ etc - are based on a few trips to Oxford Street in the rush hour on a bank holiday 🤣

So what's your proposal for fixing the problem?

Yes agreed. You can't really compare visiting somewhere as a tourist or for a business meeting to living there. "I went to M&Ms World and I thought it was rubbish- just a load of M&Ms, so consumerist. No idea why anyone would want to live in London" etc etc.

London also contributes nearly half of all UK total tax income. Londoners contribute more than tax than they receive in public spending.

Yea that made me laugh. People go to Tokyo with empty suitcases for the consumerism.

Obviously London is the best city in the world. To question it is to not understand it, as you allude to. What even is the M&M world thing ? Seen it from outside but none the wiser. In my head it's in the same London bucket as Madame Tussauds and the dungeon thing. Never been there either.

went to M&Ms World and I thought it was rubbish- just a load of M&Ms, so consumerist

Wtf is this shop? Admittedly it was a long time ago I went in but it’s so weird! Now I do love a peanut m&m but who buys those odd plastic statues of M&Ms that cost hundreds of pounds!

@Northermcharn I love the London Dungeon, my dad used to take us every Easter. One year my brother and I (under 12) had to do it alone as our younger sister was too scared. Obvs she become scared after dad had paid for the tickets 😆. My dc love it too.

You know Tokyo has three times as many shops as London though right?
Ew consumerism!

It's almost like the PP has hit on something about the difference in experience between living in a place and visiting the highest-traffic bits a few times a year.

I didn’t say it did. I explained how that figure was derived from the data it does provide.

I'm a Londoner but moved to Scotland 20 years ago.
London is a great city, and so much more than the tourist trails so I can totally see why people choose to live there.

Personally, my "love" city is Edinburgh which is where I chose to stay as it suits me better - slower pace, but I think a lot of the London hate is performative.

I get the impression @Goldenbear moved out of London and has never got over it.

Also how the fuck are people visiting getting black during under their fingernails and black snot? What are you all doing - licking tube tunnels or something?