To think we don’t know how lucky we are under Starmer.

[SevenYellowHammers]

Russia have a mad despot who is responsible for the deaths of Russians and Ukrainians and has caused untold damage on the world’s environment and economy. But he’s still in power.

The USA have a mad despot who’s causing deaths worldwide and has started a war he can’t win causing untold damage to the world’s economy and environment. But he’s still in power.

Israel have a mad despot who is committing genocide and putting Jewish people at risk across the world. But he’s still in power.

In the UK, we have a dull bloke who’s doing his best to stand up to the mad despots while not leading us into war. And we’re all trying to get rid of him.

We are all falling under the influence. I don’t think anyone is holding themselves as especially above it all. It’s not a sneery we’re so smart and you’re not argument. That’s precisely why it’s effective and alarming.

John Major pretty much gave up. The sleaze accusations were coming thick and fast. I remember him on the day after 97 election going to watch the cricket. He looked so relieved!

I think some of the posts on here do come across as “Im so smart and they are so gullible” actually. I do agree we are all under the influence though.

Maybe because he can actually see the problems the ever expanding welfare budget causes and dares to try to tackle it to the disgust of the left wing of the party

Agree that many left leaning labour MPs seem to be completely unaware of economic reality.

Watch what happens on the bond markets every time it looks like Sir Keir might go, and when his position looks a bit safer.

This is a country where the government spends a lot more than it takes in taxes. It has to borrow to fund the difference and, bluntly, lenders are much happier with a country led by Starmer with Rachel Reeves as Chancellor than in every other plausible scenario.

A Rayner/Burnham ticket would decimate UK sovereign debt.

I don’t think it’s about ‘seeing the light’ as much as just being aware of how it’s set up. There’s a separate argument about the decline of critical thinking skills in an era of AI and social media - when we need them most - but that isn’t about one particular group of people, it’s essential for all of us. I think schools should be prioritising it.

I can only speak personally, but it’s not that I feel I’m immune to (I’m sure I’m not!), but that I don’t consume it:

• I don’t get my political info from YouTube;
• I don’t buy or read online right-wing press like the Mail, Express, Telegraph.
• I don’t watch GB News and recognise that it is a propaganda channel with the facade of being ‘news’.
• I de-activated my twitter/X account because of Musk.

There are certainly left-wing echo chambers, but these are much smaller pockets and not entire social media platforms; in terms of traditional media, it’s just The Mirror and sometimes The Guardian. There is no comparison.

The right-wing press always come hard for a Labour government, that’s to be expected, but we’re in a new world of social media, YouTube, endless podcasts, etc. and it feels like we’re sleepwalking into something we need to be very wary of. All of us, whatever our political leanings, deserve a fairer, more objective, more fact-driven media.

“Decimate UK sovereign debt”..doesnt that mean reduce it by 10%? I doubt thats what you mean.

YABU. This is the bar for UK political leaders now? “Not a mad despot who murders people” is the most you feel you can ask for? It’s like the abusive threads here where an OP goes, “He calls me horrific names, he laughs when I’m crying, he doesn’t let me see what’s in the bank account… but he doesn’t hit me, so he’s not abusive, right?”

It’s as if you have low political self-esteem; you deserve more, you deserve better (if you’re a Labour voter or member or just a person who lives here! wtf happened to that - remember when PMs realized they represented the whole nation and not just the people who voted for them!) Keir Starmer isn’t a mad despot, but neither will he stand up to mad despots - do we really NEED another Neville Chamberlain? Raise your bar for men, whether they’re in your house or elected officials.

@DilettanteRedRagger who do you think is a better candidate?

It’s always been this way historically though. The most popular PM’s are the brash ones with a bit of “charisma” or balls of steel. Everyone remembers Thatcher, Blair, Churchill and NO ONE is going to forget Bojo in a hurry (sadly). Starmer though? He’ll be on the pile with Stanley Baldwin and John Major.

That’s the sad part; I’m not blaming OP for feeling this way. I think the current candidate pool to replace Starmer shows this feeling is pervasive - that members aren’t telling Labour, “Hey, if Wes Streeting and Angela Rayner are the VERY best you can do OR your answer is ‘just wait until Andy Burnham can do it,’ you fucking deserve to lose the whole country.” But I saw one of the new Reform councillors has already been outed for saying shite like Muslims are “rats,” and Zach Polanski isn’t even smart enough not to run for office OR out himself if he’s not paying correct council tax (he didn’t, and he should have fucking known it would be a media “gotcha”), so no wonder your bar for Labour is so low.

Not racist, not a criminal, not a mad despot, not a Liz Truss, not as bloody incompetent as parties with 0 experience? I think the job description should be a bit longer than that, for anyone in a “large, experienced” party on either side.

They certainly do need better PR, but the other problem is that we have a very right wing press who ignore all the good stuff Labour are achieving.

Sounds like you are VERY much in an echo chamber then. Must be very comfortable only getting perspectives you align with.

I strongly disagree that choosing to not get my political input from the Mail, X, YouTube or GBeebies ultimately puts me in an echo chamber. You can consume a lot of news from a range of perspectives without resorting to this lot.

As with all of these things, I’d just ask who is funding X, the YouTube content, the Mail, GB News and what serves them, politically? They certainly don’t have the interests of ordinary people in mind, or the goal of delivering quality, fact-checked news.

The value of UK sovereign debt would plummet: to raise the same amount the Treasury would have to sell more gilts and be stuck with higher interest payments.

John Major was shagging Edwina Currie wasn’t he, while preaching about sleaze and back to basics.

Yes, I realised afterwards that government had intervened last year but not nationalised. Thanks for clarifying.

Not to the same frenzied, crazed level.

Ah I see!

I agree it’s done in different ways but it’s still biased journalism

I’m sure I am, but not by social media. I talk to friends and neighbours, I read newspapers, I listen to Radio 4 and I watch the news and politics on terrestrial tv but I don’t listen to influencers. My instagram feed is almost exclusively dogs, sunsets and gardens!

If you don't pick up your new from the full range, from the socialist worker to the Express, you are not getting your full spectrum diet.

I really like Ground News for that

and - don't be silly about the funding question or I'll start mentioning the funding of the Guardian

https://ground.news

worth a try

FFS you are failing to see that this is the very reason why both the Tory and Labour party are about to become dust in the wind (well, the Tory party is quite there already). Because they are far too deep in some circle of failed people who keeps coming back, with dodgy dealings in their past, present and no intention to change.
That is why no PM has lasted much in power lately.
Reform is a new party and already deep into the same shit. Which it does not explain why is getting support. That is quite the puzzle. But they will follow the same way.
Maybe people are done with been taken for a ride, with our money, in favour of some obscure dodgy character.

Right well he seems to be staying on. At the cabinet meeting just now they spoke about the precarious and dangerous place we are in as a country and agreed on the importance of stability. Wes Streeting was effectively challenged by KS to step forward and has not. KS certainly has grit.

The media have been frenzied and ridiculous. The sight of the multiple journalists shouting repeatedly at the cabinet as they entered then left No. 10 was exhausting. This has been whipped up by them.

The Radio 4 Today programme was full of this today, and also the story about Zack Polanski not paying council tax - both important stories - but said precisely nothing about Farage’s £5m.