To wonder on the future of generous welfare in the UK

[happybug1234]

It seems increasingly obvious that many middle-income families are becoming frustrated at how squeezed they are financially, while at the same time seeing people on universal credit receive a growing range of subsidies and support — £1 attraction tickets on days out, a 6% rise in benefits this financial year, childcare costs reclaimable through Universal Credit, housing benefit, and so on. I see thread after thread on this on this site and also increasing momentum in the media on this issue (income cliff edges etc)

In my own extended family, 1 unemployed parent with the other on min wage, in social housing appear to have more holidays and more disposable income than we do, despite us both working full time with a household income of around £95k. Once childcare, mortgage, insurances, commuting and tax are taken into account, we 100% have a lower level of disposable income than they do as they do not have any of these work related costs and their rent is paid. They have recently gone on a 2 week holiday whilst the most we can ever afford is 1 week.

Quite a few teachers in my friendship circle are declining promotion opportunities or TLR because the extra pay often doesn’t feel worth the additional stress once tax, pension contributions and childcare costs are factored in. Instead, some are putting more effort into private tutoring, which is tax free cash in hand.

What is stopping the government from addressing this as people seek to be responding accordingly in their behaviour!

If you’re not working and claiming UC as a single person - no children - you get just over £400 a month to live on after any housing and council tax payments are taken out. I’m pretty sure even on my meagre lifestyle I couldn’t manage to pay utilities and eat on that.

Most of the UC payment will be for housing costs if the person is renting - which obviously goes straight into the landlords pocket not for the person to use as they wish.

If you have children and working it is a bit more generous as it is subsidising low wages from the employer who isn’t paying a living wage.

I’ve been claiming for a while due to low wages and children. My last child is going to finish education soon and I won’t get any help from UC as I work full time on min wage despite my wage not really being enough to live on.

Benefits are only generous in certain scenarios, not for single adults.

Do you have any idea how lucky you are. This is not the norm at all

It’s called insurance. They don’t pay the e’ee their salary for years on end. The insurer does. That’s generally how insurance works.

Yeah, I bet they don't work for a supermarket.

Yes, some people will have an awful shock when the child add ons and maintenance on top ( disallowed for UC purposes) stops

It’s the norm for me. I’ve worked for about 8 companies over 35 years and they’ve all had the same benefits package.

You pay tax on income over the threshold. That's the same for everyone. And it's a fact that over 50% of DWP expenditure is on pensions and related benefits.

So your company will just pay people who don't work for years if they become disabled and can no longer work. And you think this is the norm. What sector do you work in?

You get so much more than we ever got from the government. Much more.

It's not the same for all benefits claimants, just pensioners and - I think - some carer's benefits.
So you pay into a pension for all of your working life, claim it, pay tax on it and are constantly criticised on here, yet SOME UC claimants who have never worked, never paid tax and will get the same pension (with PC) are off-limits.
Then the pensioners are criticised for not being net contributers, ignoring UC claimants can be zero contributers, but that's fine. Pensioners are obviously the enemy.
How can that be?

** and before anyone points it out, I KNOW there is not a pension pot with my name on it, and I know my tax is paying for today's pensioners!

all this is true...but however it is true that people from abroad come here and get all for free with their numerous descendands....it has to be one way or the other....cannot go forever like that can it

I worked double that and then some and my kids are happy and thriving. If you only want to work 16 hours, that’s fine if you can afford it but you shouldn’t expect tax payer top ups.

How lovely. We haven't had a benefit bashing thread for a whole few hours, I was really wondering whether people still cared.

We need to reduce the cost of renting to get benefit costs down. Many people fall into UC because of their housing costs, this then triggers other "advantages" for them. If rents were controlled at an affordable level people might not need benefits. The housing market would of course slump and we would ring our hands at the devaluing of our homes, but this might make purchasing more affordable at the bottom end. It's time we thought about buying our homes rather than bricks and mortar investments that we happen to live in. If we didn't have to move, negative equity wouldn't matter, and we could build in something to cushion people who needed to sell to move for work etc (hard hat on for the squealing landlords)

An unemployed adult over 25 is getting £424.90 per month!!
If the unemployed adult is living alone in a 2 bed property, you can take another £100 per month off of that due to the deduction in housing support.
That's potentially £324.90 a month for many people.
That equates to less than £75 a week, to pay all bills, food and transport, possibly excluding rent (if the LHA covers the rent, so social housing) and 80% of council tax.
I wouldn't class that as generous!!

Oh good, yet another thread where someone with a relatively good household income is jealous of people on benefits.
Are you not embarrassed to come on here and moan about the fact your £95,000 a year salaries mean you can’t get £1 tickets to attractions.
I have so had enough of this division being stirred up by the right wing press and Reform.
Nearly everyone in this country is struggling right now. Hardly anyone has loads of money to throw around. Why the constant comparison of who’s got it better?
It literally doesn’t help anything or anyone.

I'm glad you've mentioned this. Some council estates are appalling places to live. There's a housing association block of flats near me where some of the residents are drug dealers - vulnerable women have been placed there and had terrible experiences. Nothing to be jealous of.

This. It’s tax fraud. And they should bear in mind that HMRC have tools these days to find this stuff.

You had the benefit of council houses which are almost impossible to get today, so a lot of welfare money is spent paying rent to private landlords. You also had universal child benefit (or family allowance as it was previously called). Children with severe disabilities were put in institutions. I’m not saying that is right but their parents could work. Today, parents are expected to provide 24-7 car themselves. How can they work and do that?

Yes, benefits are not at all generous for single people and it can be a huge struggle, particularly for older single people.

But they can be incredibly generous for people with children. I remember reading one of those post-budget features discussing the finances of different families. I was really shocked when I realised a lone parent with three children in London, who was working part time, was getting nearly as much as me per month - me, a lone parent with one DC, who works 50 hours a week, and has never received a penny in benefits. It just felt unfair.

If I had to claim the housing element on UC, would get about £620pm... that is the rate for a one bed place (I am over 35).
The cheapest place where I live is £720. So that would be £100 to make up the shortfall straight away.

You can claim UC if you have a mortgage.

You dont get the housing element but you do get a larger work allowance.

They also offer claimants loans on their mortgage interest.

It's disappointing to see challenges on both sides with limited agreement.

Both things can be true 1. Some people struggle because working is difficult however 2. Some people receive more than those out working each day.

Hopefully there is agreement that the current benefit payments, relative to the UK economy is unsustainable. Only growth or reduction in benefits can make the equation work.

GDP per capita hasn't increased whilst the population has grown which means every person in the UK is less productive. I think working people feel they have done enough so there isn't much else they can give...neither can employers.

Winter fuel payments to only paid to those below average earnings. Threshold for getting payments to be increased..16k is too low. Cap additional benefits to 3 children. No PIP for anyone with income/benefits over average UK salary or with savings over 20k.

UK welfare is really not generous. It's a fraction of what you'd get in Ireland, for example.

The only thing that makes it seem generous is the high cost of housing covered by housing benefits.

That would defeat the the point of PIP.
It is a 'personal independent payment'