School saying things about both our kids now- 6 and 4.

[ijust]

Hello, wondering if someone could help? Maybe someone has experienced something similar.

my children are 4 and 6. My youngest is in nursery / preschool and my oldest is in year 1.

they go to a private school.

a few months ago we got feedback about my DD6. She struggles to concentrate, isn’t able to follow some instructions- for example if they’re on the carpet and then told to go and sit at the desk and write something - she will have forgotten. Behaviour is good, no issue there. Also no issue with friendship. My DD has been at this school since nursery, when she was 3. Anyway, SENCO have put some things to help her in place and it’s a watch and wait how she does kind of thing. She’s not extremely behind academically at this point.

My DS4 is in the nursery and I’ve now also received feedback about him. They’re worried he cannot stay still at all, also doesn’t follow instructions well. We’ve also been told he just moves so much and flops around all the time, he ends up falling and seems clumsy. He cannot sit still. He’s picking up phonics well. Again, they think his behaviour is fine, he doesn’t hit or lash out at other kids but they think he can’t help just not being able to sit still. In the case of my son his class teacher actually mentioned adhd of dyspraxia.

In my daughter’s case, no conditions have been mentioned by them yet really. But I think they suspect adhd here or dyslexia as possibilities.

I am a bit gobsmacked now that there seems to be an issue so early in school / nursery for both of them.

any words of wisdom ? My husband just doesn’t buy into any of it at all. He says I shouldn’t take what they’re saying so seriously and that the kids are young and will be fine and it’s just the way the world is nowadays in schools. I can’t really talk to him about it. I don’t have anyone who can objectively advise me who has been through it. I don’t think the school would waste time just saying this stuff.

Watch and wait. The 4 year old sounds like an active little boy to me. He’s 4! We have a mad system of forcing children to sit still for long periods of time in the UK. It’s not natural and he’s not a failure for not being able to do it.

My bil was like this, he kept saying the kids behaviour was normal kid stuff and nothing to worry about.
The year they were all diagnosed with severe dyslexia and adhd (too late to be helpful) so was he.
It seemed normal to him because he was exactly the same as a child.

I'm with your husband.

Sounds like they both have ADHD or other ND. It’s great school are on it. It can take years to get diagnosis via the NHS and they earlier you can get on with this and get them the support they need the better.

Your DH is being an idiot.

I'd be grateful they are highlighting issues now early on. I have a late diagnosed AuDHD DD and them mental health trauma she has been through almost ended us both. On the very long path to diagnosis we had to get old school reports. Looking back they all scream autism (and many other issues). One teacher even called her a "bitch" because of her single intense friendship. Take everything they offer. If nothing comes of it great. But its better to identify it early (so often missed in quiet studious girls).

I had my child in private nursery feeder into a pruvate school.
They started to raise things almost carbon copy of what you wrote in your post, they got the senco involved, I asked them how they were going to support him if ultimately he ended up with an adhd diagnosis, they said they wouldn't.
The senco was horrible to me, told me off in a meeting like I was a child and I pulled him out the next day.
Went to a state achool, got lots of support and he does now have adhd diagnosis but is doing well with all the extra support they can provide.
We really didn't think there was anything wrong with our child and did not even know anything much about adhd.
But I am glad I asked that question.. if he ends up with a diagnosis, will you support him, as their answer of no, told me all I needed to know about that school.
Ask that question and find out the answer now before you spend thousands and thousands to end up being told they can't accomodate your child a few years down the line.

The waiting lists and actually getting things moving is a very long and slow process so waiting and seeing might be something you regret if it turns out they need some help. Schools can get it wrong but don't often speak to parents like that unless they're very concerned. In your position, I'd start the ball rolling and get some assessments set up. It won't do any harm at all. Hopefully it will turn out to be nothing, but better to have wasted time going to a couple of appointments than be a couple of years down the line and need them urgently.

He is only 4 years old … I think that is too young to be labelling him?

Thanks OP. The reason I ask about self care stuff like dressing is that in my experience, having the opportunity to learn that sort of thing at home, like pouring your own cereal into a bowl and milk on top etc correlates with finding the demands of school easier than if all these tasks are done by adults. I do agree with PP that we expect young children to sit for way longer than we should, especially at four. If I was in charge we wouldn't be encouraging such small children to sit still. They learn by doing. It was the falling and flopping and not remembering instructions that made me respond to your post.

Your school sounds like they have some stuff in place and it is great news that they both have good speech and language skills. If it was me I would continue to listen to what school are saying and see how visual timetables and fidget toys go in school.

I wasn't suggesting all four year olds should be washing independently by any stretch but just wondering if they were both starting to do things for themselves with your encouragement or if that felt like a completely unrealistic expectation as that gives me a bit more to go on.

Some parents want teachers to reassure them that their kids are 'doing okay'. It is the question I am asked most often at parents' evening. A teacher noting that a child needs more help with some things or find some tasks more difficult than peers isn't the opposite of this. Your kids very much sound like they are fine, especially with some targeted help in some areas so try not to worry. I think the teacher sharing concerns and working with you to make sure they can flourish in the school environment is good practice on their part and what you should expect from the school.

Exactly this.. we knew we were being pushed out. So I asked blatently, will you accomodate and support my child if they end up with an adhd diagnosis.. and they said no. The senco then said to me ' stop pulling your face'. As i was probably looking sad having just been told this. Like I was 5, so my child never went back. That was it I pulled him out the next day. Wrote a letter of complaint and didnt pay the 1 terms fees notice and they never chased me for them. This was nursery going into reception.
We also for secondary had interviews at two private secondary schools which were sport focussed as my child is very active, both said they will not support him

We have been at state now all the way through and the SEN support has been amazing, a bit patchy at times but generally good.
My DH was in complete denial of SEN needs for a number of years, it tiok a long time for him to come round so I was the one doing the school meetings and advocating, he now does fully accept and understand it all now and now recognises he himself has adhd.
Its a long journey for you all. In so many ways. I wish you luck with it all, its a hard road. We have travelled it.
.

I can't understand why the education system considers it developmentally appropriate for a child of 4 to sit still and learn for chunks of time. Small children are build to be constantly moving. I genuinely believe that lots of children are being included in sen just because we are expecting too much too young. Why on earth they are teaching 5 year olds about fronted adverbials?

And I say this with kids who have clear sen and are not able to access mainstream school. But I am certain that ds1 would have managed to complete primary in mainstream 20 years ago when more flexibility and learning through play was there.

My kids were at private primary and my eldest was flagged in her first year age 4/5 as being a bit slower to read.

my mum was a teacher and I said fine, but come back to me when she is 7 and most kids have caught up by then. At 7 she had caught up and was fine. She is 16 now, she probably is neurodiverse, but it hasn’t affected her academically and it only became obvious when she started highers.

Anyway, I think private primaries can be quick to get Ed psych involved early as they have them available. Say yes if you want, but generally most kids are getting it by 7. In Finland they don’t start proper learning until 7, before that it is play learning.

Please tell your husband ADHD is a neurodevelopmental condition, the brain physically works differently. It's not just "how things are nowadays". It's only been recently recognised/understood, but sadly receives a lot of eye-rolling.

Better to get diagnosed early to get help imo. I had ASD and didn’t get diagnosed till my teens when there was a serious incident that resulted in my getting excluded. I’m not blaming my ASD, but I think if I had help in place the situation would not have happened. My dad was very against me getting diagnosed with anything because I was good academically, but ASD had been mentioned since I was about 7 (for a girl in the 2000s that was very strange).

DS5 has just got his diagnosis and I’m so glad we got him sorted early. He is much happier and calmer than I remember being at his age and he understands himself better than I did. Not saying your kids have ADHD or ASD or anything, but I think it’s always worth looking into because the help truly makes a world of difference. Even for me, after I got diagnosed I stated to understand myself and my behaviour more, but I wish I’d had that from an early age.

Some experience of this. I have a DS (5) diagnosed with ASD at 3 - I strongly suspect he has ADHD like his dad but cannot be tested until age 7. DS attended a private montessori school at age 3 (before diagnosis) & was "extremely disruptive" - we were very cooperative with the school & they flip flopped between saying they thought DS was autistic to saying he wasn't parented properly. After 4 months they said we needed to pay for a 1 to 1 so we took him out & put him in a small English pre school (8 kids per class) - he thrived - no issues. We then moved him to pre-reception in a school that we knew was inclusive with a lot of support for ND kids - but we did not disclose the diagnosis. Noone detected anything in pre-reception and we had no issues. In reception they recognise he is a bit different to other kids - but no label given - the school is not in a position to diagnose your kid with anything. They are not qualified to do that. They could highlight concerns - x isn't meeting this milestone, or we have noticed some delay in x skills which is not aligned to her peers, but it should always be in a supportive way - they can tell you what they're seeing but they should also tell you want they're doing to support. We have 1 girl in DS class who has just turned 5 & the school clearly suspect she has ADHD (as do I) - she is very impulsive, disruptive, a big ball of energy, doesn't follow instruction, and often does things that are perceived as "naughty" - alot of hitting, drawing on walls etc. The school told the parents they suspected a development delay & wanted the school psychologist to observe - she did and then they suggested their daughter have an assessment with a psychiatrist. The parents were baffled but agreed to it but the psychiatrist did not find anything and said they won't asses until child is 7. The school told the parents that in order to sign up for the next school year they have to agree to sign a form that they will agree to pay for a 1 to 1 if their child's behaviour does not improve.
Conversely with my son - he comes across as having ADHD because he is constantly on the go, has always taken him 2 to 3 hours to fall asleep (until we were prescribed melatonin), fine motor skills are behind, but he's full on. I think he has not been as disruptive in class but the school has been more supportive because we have been more cooperative than the other girls parents - we work together to find ways to improve behaviour, we have OT sessions every week, we are working with a nutrionist to improve diet (down to restricted eating) - we have seen a big improvement with saffron & magnesium supplements. My advice is work with the school but remind them no diagnosis has been made as yet. Private schools can be selective but equally you want a school that's supportive that won't push you out because your kid can't sit still - not uncommon at that age.

My middle DD who is now 18 is dyslexic, from nursery I kept telling them she was dyslexic but they told me she was far too young to be diagnosed, eventually after I paid for the tests she was diagnosed when she was 7. She was and still is excellent at sports and picks things up quickly but give her a list of things to do and she has forgotten it all after about 30 seconds! Your DD may still be too young but for my DD they used to give her post it notes with the instructions of what they wanted her to do as my DD's short term memory is poor, I would try and get a dyslexia diagnosis.

I don't think from what you've said would immediately flag ADHD but if you're concerned I would look at what you can do diet wise - see a kids nutrionist. Slightly different with my son as he has ASD (although we've seen pediatricians who dont think he does despite his diagnosis) but there is a strong link between brain and gut health and our nutrionist found deficiencies/gut issues which is linked to poor behaviour.

Hi OP.

I think it’s a good thing they’re flagging things now! If there is a support need identified then it’s better to add this as early as possible.

There is so much more information nowadays which has helped children and adults get the support they need so that they don’t struggle on.

your husband should educate himself and not be so offended by the suggestions.

other posters who think “what’s the world coming to” can also learn a bit more too.

it may be that they don’t have any additional needs. But surely it doesn’t help to find out.

why don’t you suggest this to your husband and frame it as a way to rule things out rather than in.

The sitting and flopping does sound like some motor control needs and sensory needs maybe. This doesn't mean he needs a diagnosis or label, but may need more movements breaks built into his day or special cushions. He could have some OT sessions to work on this and they can advise some exercises and games to play at home. It may just help them catch up.

and please don’t be scared of medication. Medication for a lot of people diagnosed with ADHD can be life changing and give them back the life they deserve. I’ve seen it happen. I know meds doesn’t work for all - but ADHD is one of the diagnoses where I’d advocate for it.

Yes you’re right that issues very early on can just be immaturity and that is why we don’t usually start to push any investigations until end year 1 to 2. Extreme cases can be flagged earlier but that’s rarer.
However the school is right to raise it. Often parents agree they have issue at home too. But it always seems to be dads that are reluctant to see anything that may need extra support. I have no idea why.

We had a boy that a was extremely defiant and was diagnosed with asd. The specialist found his iron and Vit d were in the floor. There were big improvements once rectified.

Thank you for saying this. I think some people still blame parenting or sweets!

the brain is wired a bit differently and hormones will work slightly wonky!

There’s no shame in being diagnosed with ND. It’s just a different way of being.

Wow private schools eh!!! Shocking!

If the school are mentioning it now that’s fantastic. I’ve had to fight for both my kids to be recognised as having additional support needs with the school even when our GP was in no doubt. It held up our assessment applications as the school didn’t agree.

if your school is picking up on issues now
then you’re getting in there early and if it turns out to be nothing then no harm, if it turns it to be adhd or something else then the support is in place from the start.

ASN aren’t just for people with diagnoses they’re for people who literally have additional support needs, including advanced learners btw. This isn’t about medication it’s about ensuring your kids are getting the support they need and you’re kept aware of it. Teachers don’t suggest this for fun, they don’t get commission on it, it’s their job to identify potential issues and it’s someone else’s job to work out whether that is a diagnosable condition or just some additional needs at that point in time

I am with your dh. My dniece was non-verbal until age 3, like not at all. Also did not follow instructions, only did what she wanted. Started speaking both languages (mum is French) at 3 or thereabouts. Very strong-willed, no issues with autism or adhd. Don't rush to push your dc into the mental health problems circle just yet. All this time my db was going mental, comparing his dd to everyone else, screaming at his wife 'I can have a conversation with so and so (dniece's age) and she is non-verbal!

I'm afraid I would not rule out the possibility that it's private school bullshit. I have an academic non-sporty DS. He spent some time at a private school when we returned from living in a big American city. He had no problems at any other school he ever went to. The private school wanted a very specific sort of child - easy teach and sporty. They put us through the nonsense of investigating SEN and the circs in your original post sound startlingly similar. I would be very wary and start looking for another school asap