Is a more left Labour government what people want?

[punkhairbrush]

I keep hearing statement after statement from Labour MPs and Rayner saying they essentially want a more left version of the Labour Party. From my understanding the majority of the public are fed up with work not paying and whether we like it or not, nothing being done about the welfare state and also illegal immigrants. Surely a more left approach isn’t going to solve either of these issues and will just cause Labour to be even less popular than they are now. Or have I got it all wrong?

Yes. Labour are weak on issues that most people I know care about, that is to say Palestine, mental health, funding social care properly, SEND support in schools, climate change, pro- immigration and increasing access to affordable housing and childcare.

“Economically necessary” is not the same thing as good for the economy. The Treasury likes immigration because business likes immigration because they like a steady flow of low skilled workers to whom they can pay low wages.

Oh my! blaming Labour for things that happened 25 years ago!

If true (its not) why didn't the Tories reverse this over 14 years in Govt????

CS has always been inefficient etc.

Starmer/Reeves get blasted for blaming our perilous economic state on things the Tories did 22 months ago.....

Your post did cheer up my morning though!

A simplistic analysis, and you called the FT ‘right wing’ in your previous post.

The FT readership is actually pretty divided, as are the editorials. Point is - Labour’s policies, incompetence, u-turns, vetting failures, local and devolved election hammering, and now leadership psychodrama, have illustrated the folly of a socialist government. The BBC and others see this.

Even the Guardian has turned critical.

I don’t think people working in the NHS perceive their wages are being improved, band 3 pay is abysmal for the skilled role it often is and where it was once a relatively well paid role compared to the minimum wage, it is now virtually paid at the minimum wage. For those higher up the bandings they see their take home pay decimated by high taxes and student loan repayments. Whereas previously the training was funded, new healthcare professionals have had to take out loans to pay for it all themselves. Whereas when I left school you could enter nursing with 5 GCSEs and they would take you up to degree level fully funded, the barriers to become a nurse, paramedic etc have been made ever higher. So it’s not that there is a lack of people wanting to do the jobs but the conditions of entry made more unattractive and even those who do jump through the hoops have now found themselves without jobs. Writing the sort of British people off whom at one time filled many of these NHS jobs as now not good enough is nothing but insulting. How on earth does the ‘natives are too stupid and lazy’ narrative expect to be taken by said natives? I have several degrees but being highly educated is not the be all and end all, it’s often circumstances that lead to the level of qualification a person ends up achieving but it is constantly portrayed as it were a personal attribute. Yet I know plenty of people with few academic qualifications who have attributes which far outstrip those who do.
People see excessive migration as being a big part of our housing crisis, not to mention all the nuances in the new renters rights act plus years of increased taxes on landlords as making being a landlord unattractive for all but a niche few.
People who are already struggling to achieve a decent standard of living for their family see their is no benefit to them busting a gut to try and earn more money due to the way the tax system works, this is the problem they see for business as it’s not worth going for that promotion or doing overtime as the effort isn’t rewarded.

@SpideySensesbroken not only weak on send but removing legal procedure for families and protection and removing parents rights. There have been protest recently and legal actions against these proposals have started

@acourtofmistandfurythis is the typical response from the Left to make anyone who thinks this feel guilty.

As I mentioned in previous posts, like it or not, many MANY people are frustrated with working so hard but then seeing others receive benefits and help and working much less (I’m not talking about PIP)! My friend and neighbour works part time and takes £4K more home a year than I do. I work two jobs, evenings and weekends have to pay full rent (on the same flat she gets HA). She works four days, gets 85% of her childcare costs paid for. This isn’t made up this is fact. We’re both single parents but because I earn above a small threshold I get nothing. The left constantly scorning people who are frustrated with things like the above push people to vote on the far right.

If it benefits a relatively small amount of families, why are you so bothered about it? It also doesn’t mostly benefit people not in work because the vast majority of UC claimants are in work. I’m all for lifting children out of poverty and can’t believe people get salty about it.

What I don’t necessarily agree with is FSM on top of this for all children whose parents claim UC. Some people earn fairly handsomely but maybe get £20 a week top up in UC. I don’t think their children need FSM.

All of which in regard to the NHS happened under the Tories, removal of bursaries, cutting nurse places, 0% and 1% pay freezes, plan 2 student loans... hell, even the tripling of student fees themselves... all Tory.

BUT at the same time, Tories forced the NHS to recruit overseas, which meant after Brexit, developing countries, often with extreme HCP shortages themselves.

AHP and HCP roles have become degree educated the world over, not just UK, there are some apprenticeship schemes but UK "native" uptake is poor plus we don't have the capacity to train in house.

Reeves has not increased a single tax for anyone working in the NHS, the threshold freezes were baked in until 2028 by the Tories.

Band 3 pay is 27,500 after 2 years, £3000 pa more than NMW....

Yet again, people want higher NHS pay, blame Labour for it (despite giving above inflation pay awards) but blame Labour for higher taxes to pay for this.

It’s a choice. You’re martyring yourself working two jobs and forcing yourself over the threshold because in your mind benefits are bad. It’s fine to feel that way but don’t complain when your friend doesn’t and claims benefits whilst working one job instead.

I get why people feel bitter, we’re ’high earners’ so get naff all but have 5 DC which was a choice, as with anything and this means we’re 100% not rolling in it by any means. We just get on with it. We chose to become highly educated and work in fairly well paid jobs and we’d rather be this way than working in min wage jobs and claiming UC. In fact, I’d say I feel privileged to be so educated and do the job I do rather than envying someone who didn’t get the same education and works in a shop.

@Bushmillsbabe schools and other education settings have the same ni burden also so no it's robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Basically they have done other things that have left places worse off as well.

I cannot be doing with all this envying neighbours bullshit. Benefits are meant to be a sticking plaster - a temporary solution to help people survive in a weak economy.

What we all need is a proper plan from politicians on how they are going to rebuild the economy as it is currently very broken for ordinary people. The greens have the most positive approach but none of them are as bold as they need to be.

No - the voting signifies that the majority want less left wing policies.

If Labour don’t absorb that, then their fortunes will go from bad to worse.

I’m asking a question - how will it make your life better? If all that will make you feel better is seeing others be torn down, I think it speaks volumes of your character. I’m not scorning you, I’m just saying I think it’s ironic that the right wing talk about the “politics of envy” yet they base all of their policies on envy.

How do you know such intimate details of your neighbour’s finances? Would you not rather a system that helped both of you, than none of you?

Research shows time and again that most people want left wing policies like higher taxation for the wealthiest, better worker protections, nationalised utilities and national infrastructure... only they don't want them from a left-wing party. Which leaves labour in a bit of a fix🙄

The problem really is how divided we all are. Labour's popularity started to crater with Reeves' budget (but with Raynor in charge we could expect more of the same). Many among the middle class started to feel pissed off with them because of the endless taxing. Small businesses get especially hammered. Then there's all the people who can only think of 'no immigrants' = sunlit uplands. And everybody somehow wants more growth and more money, more public services but for less... We've become ungovernable frankly. Reform won't deliver. Getting rid of Starmer in favour of more left wing policies won't deliver. We're screwed.

It does send the wrong message, the talk of child poverty is not the reality people see among families they know of personally on UC, yet most people know of a friend or relative who has told of having to wait hours for an ambulance or on an A&E trolley in pain so people resent that money being spent on families on UC (working or not) instead of fixing issues in our public services. They also resent having their own standard of living decimated to pay for it via frozen tax thresholds etc. Labour talking to us of an idea of maybe reducing our energy bills by £150 as what they will do for people not on UC among all this just makes people incredulous

On a brighter note, at 10.00, Starmer will share his new and bold vision for the UK! Reset no. 84…

Doubtless he will ask for more time, and say ‘I get it’ and ‘I hear you’ etc.

Enough, he’s done.

Yup - throwing insults around doesn't help anything.

It makes the person doing it sound worse than the person on the receiving end.

Most people don’t give a shit about Palestine.
They don’t give a shit about Ukraine and that’s right next door to Poland.
SEND seems to be fashionable. How many posts are on the forum where DC has autism, ADHD etc? Wasn’t like this 10 years ago.
Climate change is not top of anyone’s agenda.
The country are voting in Reform on one topic only, anti-immigration.
No one wants immigration, pushing down wages. Surely Labour, the party of the working man, understand this?

People care about immigration, potholes, and the NHS.

It's what some people want.

The other people want a more right wing one (or rather, they don't want a Labour government at all but want a more right wing party in charge).

Therein lies the problem.

Absolutely - and its why many feel that Labour sneer and look down at them - with some justification for feeling that way.

I think most younger adults (under 50!) want housing to be brought under control, cost of living to be meaningfully addressed, a sense of greater freedom rather than restriction. A sense that it isn’t all hopeless.

Some of this is about employers wanting a lot of work and a lot of control with very little reward. Some is more nebulas.

I don’t think it’s a left-right thing. Typically Labour have been good on public services but very controlling in terms of family life. For example they started all this attendance obsession. Previously it was only truancy not the odd family holiday that caused issues.

I would:

• bring in rent control
• make up to 10 days holiday from school approvable by the headteacher
• remove attendance from the rhetoric and inspection measures
• make unpaid parental leave, paid leave with government support/funding for small business.
• bring in the right to switch off that was promised but got watered down
• give everyone some one off public holidays (in lieu if you can’t take them)

@Alexandra2001 what happened under Blair is v important because it set the tone for what happened since.

He unwittingly flooded the country with a massive wave of immigration which he didn't count in and the scale of what he had done seeped through or rather swept through like a tsunami on public services .
This hammer blow happened just before the credit crisis which put us in a far weaker position . It was this that has subsequently pushed people's patience with any immigration at all.
So yes it's very important at the time it decimated so many services including maternity care becusee they couldn't cope extra primary classes has to be built over play grounds and so on

@KatiePricesKnickersagree with everything you say. Palestine is such a divisive issue, pushed by people with another agenda. If they really cared about HR they would be protesting on Sudan, China and anti semitism.