Is a more left Labour government what people want?

[punkhairbrush]

I keep hearing statement after statement from Labour MPs and Rayner saying they essentially want a more left version of the Labour Party. From my understanding the majority of the public are fed up with work not paying and whether we like it or not, nothing being done about the welfare state and also illegal immigrants. Surely a more left approach isn’t going to solve either of these issues and will just cause Labour to be even less popular than they are now. Or have I got it all wrong?

People want secure borders, safe streets and well-funded schools and hospitals. They also want work to pay and a pay cheque to cover the bills and a few treats.

None of these things should feel like unimaginable luxury. Increasingly they feel impossible.

I don’t blame pensioners. I want us to keep having a decent state pension. That’s why it’s so important we have enough workers to support the retired. There are only two ways really - more babies or immigration.

Basically, people are expecting more and more from the govt, with fewer people funding it. There is a game of economic pass the parcel going on in the background which, at some point in the next 10-30 years will come to a shuddering stop, and someone will be left holding the parcel of crap.

Over the past 30 years the govt has had a bigger and bigger role in people’s lives, through the massive expansion of state funded jobs and the increase in benefits and the triple lock. This is funded by increasing numbers of immigrants coming in. The expectation that the govt will step in and fix problems is actually a pretty new thing. I’m not saying this is bad - but it’s paid for by the taxpayer, which is fine all the time there are more taxpayers than tax takers.

However, this is teetering on a knife edge. If nothing changes, at some point, the whole system will come crashing down and there will have to be a sudden cut off of a significant amount of benefits and/or loss of state funded jobs. Would be better to start tapering down now but they won’t. Because whoever starts doing this will be very unpopular.

Yep. They feel impossible in most G7 countries

It's not as simple as left/right imo.

I think there is a significant constituency that wants some old fashioned leftism, and they tend to be mildly socially conservative, locally focused, eurosceptic, want immigration reduced, and good education and health care, and good local jobs.

They aren't keen on identity politics.

The modern left and modern far left are not that. Angela Raynor may think going farther on social welfare and equity programs mean they will be "more left" but that is pretty debatable and won't win them back their old voting base.

With fewer workers and a large elderly population we certainly need to be reducing the state not expanding it. In the past people turned to family and community for help. Now they turn to the state first for help. It’s simply not affordable any more.

Cause and effect, I suggest.

Had this government not been so overtly pro-welfare and immigration, and high tax - Reform would never have secured the support they have.

People are sick of being taxed to death whilst being kicked and call racist.
The left brought this upon themselves.

They've hardly been pro-welfare. They made a very serious attempt to remove or reduce disability benefits from some of the most seriously disabled people without seeming to understand the system - hence why it failed. I think they'd bought their own bullshit that PIP was being given out to people with mild conditions and when MPs were inundated with stories of quite seriously disabled people who stood to lose all or most of their incomes due to the proposed changes it quickly became totally untenable. They've cut disability benefits for new claimants on UC by a not inconsiderable amount which will leave some disabled people destitute. Many already are. I think that's one of the reasons they've lost a lot of support. Disability is quite evenly spread throughout society and anyone with a disabled person in their family have seen what harm their proposed policies would have done. I have stopped voting labour because of their approach and multiple others I know with disabilities have also switched to other parties.

Ummmm what popularity? Badenoch out performs him on "Who would make UKs best PM"
Even Starmer was close.

Reform are on 25% of the vote.... 75% of the country hate him.

It’s going to be a great day - a beautiful one, in fact.

I hope you enjoy it as much as I will.

Well no, about 50% of the country didn't vote so we don't know their preference

Its certainly true that the right wing don't give a fuck about the country, all they care about is their own pathetic tribal politics.

On "enjoy" well, whatever happens today, i will go to bed knowing that Reform (let alone the Tories) are still several years away from any possible chance of Govt.

& that really does fill me with happiness 😀

The state has supported us in times of need for the last 80 years and provided high quality public services until Osborne embarked on his campaign of slash and burn in 2010.

Attlee’s government managed to create the welfare state, build thousands of council houses and give us the NHS when the country was economically on its knees and in hock to the US. The difference was society then had a common goal.

We've had months of polling, across many polls, Reform have gone from around 35% to 25% and the Tories from 23% to 18%...

But it's still not 75% of the country. I didn't vote as my council wasn't up for election nor have I voted in a poll so my vote for either Tory or Reform is in the missing around 50%

Do you know how polling works?

the hard left is for those wealthy enough to enjoy luxury beliefs. And students.

So ridiculously biased.

You could say that about all the parties - only a small percentage voted for them (smaller than reform) - so the rest must "hate them".

It's a stupid argument though. You have no way of knowing who they hate and most of the country didn't even vote at the local elections.

Recent polling show just 25% have a favourable view of Farage, against 62% who dislike him.

So perhaps 75% was a little high but still in the ball park.

He is an extremely divisive figure but i'm surprised you defend him, given his views.

I’m not a fan of austerity and I’d love us to spend more on public services…but globalisation means that anyone (business or personal) with money that doesn’t want to pay for the welfare of others can just leave. This is why itsmore difficult for any government

And the cost of welfare is going up and up primary due to state pensions and people living longer

Labour going left will be disastrous, to spend more they will have to -

1 ask for more tax and be vilified for it by the right wing press and hated even more by most people

2 borrow more - higher interest payments, markets will panic, another liz trust moment, higher interest rates for government, mortgage holders, businesses, economy falls off the edge

Theres no easy answers for any government

I don’t defend him, I would never vote Reform.

But it’s misinformation to say that 75% of the public hate Reform. I asked you before but you declined to answer, what percentage of the population hate the Green party, based on your logic that it’s everyone who didn’t vote Green at the local elections?

It's a fair objection but, anecdotally, you've got to admit that Farage is more sharply divisive and "marmite" in peoples' perceptions than most leaders. Only a small percentage voted for the lib dems: that's not because the rest hate Ed Davey, it's just because they don't know who he is 😃

Sure, it's an exaggeration to say that everybody who doesn't vote reform hates Farage. But there's a nugget of truth behind it: he's made his name by appealing very strongly to a certain part of the electorate and not caring about how he's perceived by the other part. In fact you could even say the antipathy of the other part is part of the appeal. Every time woke lefties start fuming about how much they hate him, it actively encourages those who support Reform out of "protest" and makes them double down.

You could say much the same about Thatcher, or Corbyn. Whereas a lot of other leaders appeal by being broadly acceptable, rather than enthusiastically appealling, across a wider base. Which is what Starmer's tried to do, although he's failed.

The point of the comment you replied to being, I think, that we need to consider a bit more closely the big media and social media story about Reform galloping ahead and taking over the hearts and minds of the country. At 35% in the polls it did look like they might do that. At 25% not so much. And whereas Starmer got into power because a lot of those who didn't particularly like him at least considered him better than the alternatives, most of those who don't like Farage would more likely vote for anyone else to keep him out.

Yes Farage is marmite, I agree.

I was making a specific point about another poster extrapolating wildly that all the population that didn’t actively vote Reform must hate them, or hate Farage.

Polanski is also marmite and got a smaller share of the vote but they won’t say the same about the Green Party, that everyone hates them who didn’t vote Green.

I ve no idea but Farage, as said by a pp is a highly divisive figure and in my original post, i said "Him" not Reform.... who are still a 1 man band party or rather a ltd Company!

You must admit, that the next UK Govt voted in on around 25% of the vote is not going to be a good thing.

With 5 choices, instead of the usual 2, we desparately need a form of PR or we are going to continue to be "ungovernable"

Though might be 4 the way the media are attacking the Greens.....

A great deal of voters who don't support the Greens, do so, not because of Polanski per se but on policy, he atm doesn't attract the vitriol Farage gets.... no £5m required for his security!

One thing we can agree on @Alexandra2001 is that we would both like to see PR.

Without that, governments always get voted in with a relatively small percentage of the total vote.