To feel slightly sad for Labour and Keir?

[Wellwhatnowbellaboo]

Aibu to feel sad for Labour's results so far ? I've not historically been a Labour voter but I think Keir has done a good job on some things but on others he was never going to be popular...and no one would be ! I like that he's the first leader recently to appear to have a moral backbone and consistency (if he truly wasn't informed about Mandelson I might add).
How do you feel about the state of play particularly if you've been lifelong labour and did you swing to a different vote this time round ?

Yes I do.

They’re trying to sort out some of the mess this country is in after the last govt, and no one will listen as the media think it’s more fun (or there’s more money in) trying to make Farage PM. For some unknown reason.

This is all Starmer's fault, tbh. Weak, spineless leadership, backtracking on promises, open contempt for voters...

I mean really what did he expect?

Yep Starmer is the opposite to this.

No I don't have any sympathy for them. This mess is entirely of Labour's own making.

Don't feel sad for him.

Utterly useless and u-turning.

I don’t feel sorry for them. People have no confidence in the government, of course it’s reflected in local elections.

Labour has shown contempt for women around the transgender issue and Starmer’s attitude on that is emblematic of his mealy-mouthed, bend-with-the-wind approach.

Starmer did well on antisemitism in the LP and I applaud him for that. Otherwise, he’s been disappointing. I know it’s not easy coping with the back benches etc but he doesn’t inspire confidence and nor does Rachel Reeves.

Personally I feel that every time they’ve u turned they’ve got it wrong and it’s a double whammy, and as pp said, they act like they’re in opposition in some ways, and I feel are not truly for the average working person.

I think maybe the Labour Party was actually a 20th century party that’s outliving its purpose and needs a complete rethink - I hope they manage it - certainly we need something better than the lunatics at either end of the spectrum. I’d still vote Labour to keep out Reform or Greens but only then … they lost my support when they betrayed women.

Yes we need immigration for skilled jobs that we don’t have enough skilled people for. Find people and offer them a work visa to come over. No other immigration. Keep other jobs for those currently in benefits.

He’s a weak leader but who would replace him? Worrying 😣

I'll caveat all of the below with the fact I'm not a labour voter.
In my opinion They're actually doing a good job
Delivering on their manifesto.
Strengthening workers rights. Renters rights
I have no problem with the so-called u-turns. It shows an adaptive government. They're listening.

The Labour brand is toxic at the moment their Comms team should be sacked, replacing Starmer won't change that and there's no credible replacement.

This country has become ungovernable we expect immediate results, we want change but aren't willing to pay for it, the government now don't want to make tough decisions. For example, welfare and the triple lock.

Ultimately the right-wing billionaire class owned media want this government to fail and will create scandal and fury at every turn, making it impossible for the government to implement the change that I do still believe they want to make, but that the electorate don't really want suffer the pain to achieve.

A "good man" wouldn't have created the Peter Mandelson debacle.

They'd have known better.

He's cost a lot of hardworking local government labour councillors their seats by pretending he listens to the electorate, promising to sort out national issues, and then pursuing labour party ideological dreams as policies showing that he doesn't care what it costs the ordinary person as a result of those policies.

As opposed to the previous Govt with a Chancellor of the Exchequer who avoided paying HMRC literally £millions and used taxpayers money to keep his horses warm. And another who tried to assist the PM in crashing the economy (other candidates available)

If Labour wanted to keep the current benefits or triple lock it could have gone all out for growth. Things like the vat registration limit, child benefit, childcare hours, the ridiculous marginal tax rates all inhibit growth. They stop people earning more. They stop companies from investing here.

Then there’s planning. Virtually no houses are being built in London now as it’s been made just too tricky to get planning permission and the builders can’t be arsed anymore. Same with factories and offices. Get business building and investing in the UK. When you tell businesses about our bat tunnels and fish discos they immediately choose another country to invest in. The UK is a laughing stock and rapidly disintegrating.

More people need to be working, Fewer people need to be living off benefits as it’s completely unaffordable now and is only getting worse. It’s a hard message to sell. Those new Labour backbenchers don’t want to do it. They want to ‘be kind’. They want to give money to everyone, but I’m sorry we just cannot do that.

Yep and one of those wouldn’t sack anyone going and avoid scrutiny by all means.

Very sad. The best that can perhaps be said is that it's as well Reform get a chance to prove they're incapable in the councils - before there's a general election.

I voted Labour in the General Election as I thought Keir Starmer would be competent, and after the Tory shit-show dull and competent was what I was looking for.

I think if he’d stuck to (what I think are) his principles then he might have been able to bring some stability and improvement, it wouldn’t have been exciting but would have been enough for most Labour voters. Unfortunately he’s tried to be all things to all people, and in trying to appeal to disgruntled Tory voters (who are mostly going to defect to Reform anyway) he’s managed to alienate a LOT of Labour voters like me, while not being Tory or Reform like enough for those who lean that way, so he has lost voters from all sides.

Personally I despise Reform and all that they stand for. I despair that so many people have seen a party where the leader barely turns up to parliament, spouts divisive rhetoric, and takes £5m ‘gifts’, as a viable alternative deeply depressing. Sadly I think they are going to make large gains across the board.

If there were more options for moving into suitable accommodation when we get old, far fewer people would need the extreme expenses of a care home. At almost 80, DH, who has some health issues, and I would like to move into a flat, with optional support if and when needed. Sheltered or Extra Care Housing. But we are stuck in a house, with a garden to maintain. Why? Because we own it. If it was a large, expensive house, and we had good pension incomes, we’d buy, job done. But it isn’t and we don’t, so we are stuck.

The other option locally is social housing, but that isn’t available to us. Because we are home owners. Research has shown that appropriate housing can keep people healthier, it means a reduction in bed blocking in hospitals (discharge is often impossible due to mobility needs), and it’s far less expensive. We could live comfortably, with no need for benefits, by selling our only asset, if we could move into the right place, but it’s looking unlikely. A stairlift may be our next purchase. A care home will be our very last resort.

I can’t abide Angela Raynor but the tax issue she fell foul of is tricky. She signed a property over to her disabled son to provide for his future. She no longer has rights to that property. And yet it is still treated as her property as her son wasn’t yet 18 so she wrongly paid stamp duty on her new house treating it as her first home when she should have paid stamp duty as though it was her second home.

You cannot really compare that to Nadim Zahawi’s blatant tax dodging when he was chancellor. They are two totally different ends of the scale.

@Castellio "They want to ‘be kind’. They want to give money to everyone, but I’m sorry we just cannot do that."

I'd say they don't really want to "be kind" at all, they only want to appear to "be kind". It's the total lack of any moral substance or direction that is so repugnant.

I'm afraid I'm a longtime labour voters who didn't vote labour yesterday, but purely on local issues. I would vote labour again in a GE tomorrow.

Thinking positively they do have just enough time to turn things around before the GE though actual improvement in people’s lives will be a very tough ask because of global factors

I can’t see KS leading Labour to the next election though

Agreed. Just like those who go on about Gaza. We have NO power to change the Gaza situation. We need people in power to improve our citizens lives, something that we DO have power to change. Voting for completely incapable nonentities ‘because Gaza’ is morally reprehensible in my opinion.

We’ll get a new leader, the bond rates will soar (because all the proposed people seem incapable - Angela Raynor??? Andy Burnham???), our debt repayments will soar and life will get much worse all around.

Yes, it is tricky which is why she was advised on 2 separate occasions to seek professional tax advice on the matter. She chose not to do that.

This is not indicative of a woman who could safely be left in charge of anything of any importance.

I think the promises of AI on productivity are there but there is a risk that only the few will benefit and if that's the case, then it will destroy our social structures because we're then in an even worse position of smaller numbers of low paid jobs rather than higher numbers of low paid jobs (now) or lower numbers of high paid jobs (a potential future).

You can't roll back change, but people should benefit from progress, not just leaders. That was the point the Luddites had, much as that's been derided over the years.

What I'm talking about though is the short to mid term. What do we do now? Much as companies are shedding jobs, that's more on the promise and hope of AI than the reality of it so far. Reform would deport people now. Stop immigration now. We're not ready for that change and the economy isn't either. That was my point on the productivity benefits of automation. They're not just physical automation but also not here (fully) yet.

Tbf when he tried to his own mps turned on him. The benefits Bill IS unsustainable so what does he do? Remove the 2 child cap and introduce free school meals for ALL on uc regardless of earned income, there are households with one working and earning £45k who receive uc ludicrous