To think Starmer will be gone by the end of Friday? Or will it be Monday evening?

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

Whoever you are voting for today, it's probably not Labour - they might loose 2,000 seats.

How long exactly will it be before he resigns?

Streeting - big friend of Mandelson's. Burnham - ignore the bond markets. Really?

100% agree with this.

My constituency protest voted against the old Conservative stewardship locally and Labour nationally.

My council is in a mess. It's announced the closure of 8 care homes that had been earmarked by the previous council to be sold. The sale fell through and rather than find an alternative buyer or solution, the new Reform council is closing them. 5 dementia day care centres are also closing. Councillors have resigned or been demoted because they didn't realise that they'd have to actually turn up to meetings and work. The SEND lead resigned because he had no idea what to do in the role, didn't realise it involved so much work. Adult education services have been cut, transport for vulnerable people to day centre and outpatient appointments has been cut. They promised us DOGE, the deficit hasn't reduced. One of the councillors had to apologise for saying he was racist and proud of it. We no longer have a climate change committee because they don't believe in it.

This is NOT a sensible way of sending a message to central government if you want everyday life - where politics affects you most - to run smoothly.

I absolutely promise that not being able to get any SEND support for your child, or having to find a new care home for your father, or having to pay for taxis for your mum to get to her outpatient appointments, will affect you far more than a hypothetical trans woman in a loo or asylum seeker in a hotel.

Vote tactically or on single issues on a national level.

Engage your brain and vote intelligently locally, to avoid your local councilllors becoming memes like mine have, while watching your council tax rise by the maximum 4.99% while people like Farage tell you they never promised tax cuts.

Really?

Unless there is a Labour back bencher that I am not aware of, I'd pick Starmer over Rayner or Streeting, who seem to be the main names on this thread.

Let’s assume you are right re Starmer’s international successes for a moment.

How does that square with how people are feeling at home? Will people vote premised on domestic or foreign policy?

Rayner - a dead rubber.

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Starmer, may I say….

I would I have replied earlier but your reply to me was hidden by MN.

I’d have the authorities looking into that with all speed.

I think you think I’m a Reformite. No. I think they’re a disgraceful bunch of clowns.

Tory's aren't polling very well either.

The state of the two major parties is why so many smaller parties are predicted to do better than usual - the may as well try someone else see if they can do better mentality.

There were journalists prediction that more council than ever before will have no overall majority - Senedd may end up needing a coalition - not sure what Scotland is looking at.

It's not the usual Labour/Tory race here at all - you're looking at fourth place in polling to find Labour though it will be interesting to see how it all ends up.

I'm not a fan of Starmer - I think he has made some terrible decisions nationally

But if you try to claim he is not doing well internationally you are either uninformed, or trying to score cheap political points.

His good guy / bad guy double act with Macron when Trump first took office was a masterclass in international diplomacy and he was instrumental in corralling European leaders and leading the joint response to Trumps threats against Greenland.

The speech given by Charles in the senate, which would have been approved by the Government, if not Starmer personally was on point.

As for the Mandelson issue - I believe that while Starmer suspected having heard the same rumours as everyone else, I think he probably made it known that he wanted Mandelson in the role (and he was the right appointment at the time as it needed someone who understood that they were dealing with) but he needed plausible deniability, so was genuinely never informed that he had failed the screening.

People will vote based on populist narratives that say the way they are feeling is because Starmer is utterly incompetent and if he wasn't Prime Minister, everything would get better. Taxes will be cut, the boats will magically go away, food prices will fall, we'll miraculously find more than 30 max years of oil and gas in the north sea AND it'll be the stuff we actually need/use at home AND we'll be able to refine it, store it and set our own prices for it right here in the UK and you'll be able to call the Muslim family that run the corner shop the P word again without fear of being sent to prison because there's no free speech in this country.

I don't blame anyone for feeling like things are shit right now. They really, really are.

If you take the time to unpick which bits of that are Kier Starmer's fault, which bits are the previous government's, which bits are Brexit, which bits are the cost of preventing the economy being obliterated during covid, which bits are global factors, and how it compares to other countries - the picture is annoyingly more fragmented, there are lots of ifs and buts and maybes around it, and it's hard to conclude that who is at fault for where we are now is anything other than complicated - and that blame isn't all that useful anyway.

But people don't like complicated. They want an easy, FAST answer to the fact that it's fucking freezing (in May!) but we're sitting here with heated blankets because we can't afford to put the heating on.

Blame Starmer. Burn the witch.

Also not as bad as ZP (dangerous loony) and NF (same as BJ but worse).
I actually think on balance he’s getting more right than wrong and I want to see him see his term out.

He’s implementing legislation I support
ending ticket touts
ending driving instructors booking and selling test slots
ending hunting loopholes
beginning to end animal testing
improved rights for workers and renters

Hes invested in key growth areas
clean energy, tech, AI - big growth areas for jobs
defence - very necessary

He’s negotiated deals I agree with - I’m pro Europe and loathe DT
closer ties with Europe, easing food export checks, back in Erasmus,
moving closer to defense agreement with Europe - necessary
handled DT well in the early days getting beneficial trade deals
stood up the the US president when he lost the plot and started a war that was not in our interests and has damaged the global economy,
strongly pro NATO.

Let’s hope they lose lots and lots of seats and start taking their constituent’s opinions more seriously.

Some do like him still, quite a few on here for example. But if he’s a dead weight for the party, as may well come back tomorrow, it could make sense to remove that issue to try to pick up votes again.

He won’t have the political power anymore as he will be blocked on votes. Ypu can’t compare the US political system with the UK .

You make some fair points.

But, he’s also simply unlikeable - he has no political antenna, no charisma or charm, is wooden and flat-footed, chippy, indecisive, and invariably fails to take personal responsibility - preferring to throw a colleague under the bus. At PMQ’s he often looks like he wants to leap over the despatch box and lay hands on Badenoch.

We all see it - politics and ideology aside.

Can’t see him being around for the next general election, but I think he’ll try and hold on as long as he can

To be clear, I don't like him.

But we really - REALLY - need some political stability in order for the markets to have confidence in Britain again and for businesses to have the confidence to invest here. A new leader and a new agenda every 5 minutes slows down progress and growth.

If people really wanted things at home to change - they really wanted the economy to improve - they'd behave like fucking grown ups. Criticise the government when they fuck up, but only when they fuck up (MANDELSON), and give them the grace and space to get on with navigating us through the shitstorm that is geopolitics right now.

The press would stop talking Britain down. Farage would stop going to America and saying that everything here is insufferably shit. We would all fly the flag for our country and declare it open for business.

Or just carry on like the deranged toddlers we are, constantly hitting ourselves on the head then crying that it hurts.

YABU to think Starmer will be out if Labour lose seats on local councils. Stop believing the reform propaganda.

Political stability is not what they are looking for.... they are looking for productivity to go up and for welfare to go down....

Which national decisions do you think are bad?

Weaponising VAWG in order to smear a man you don't like reveals much about your character.

I would presume that anyone who is intelligent enough to make an informed decision based on overwhelming evidence would also be intelligent enough to know that pointing out such evidence would substantiate their view?

I would also presume that anyone who is engaging on a public forum in a political discussion who was intelligent enough to critically assess the available evidence in coming to their informed decision would be more than happy to use that evidence to demonstrate their position and would actually welcome the conversation and debate.

Because that is what intelligent people tend to do - the discuss, debate, try to change minds with evidence etc.

Unless of course they are one of those less intelligent people, who are actually incapable of critical thinking who like to claim that there is overwhelming evidence, but can't actually point to any beyond the latest Daily Mail / Express / Telegraph / GB News smear nonsense?

In which case simply claiming they have made a decision based on overwhelming evidence, while refusing to elaborate and insulting the intelligence of the people they don't agree with would be their go to standpoint and confirm that they are in fact the opposite of what they claim in their attempt to shut down any challenge to their views.

As you wish - I care nothing for your opinion of my character.

I agree that he has all the charisma of a (plain wooden wedge) doorstop. I truly don't care though. I'm ok for politics to be very awkward, boring and ploddy. Johnson, Mad Nad, Cummings, Truss... I'm done with drama. It shouldn't be entertaining.

He is doing a very good job internationally, and that's vitally important right now. Building relationships with Europe is our best route to economic growth and security against threats from... take your pick. Russia. America. He must have some charisma when it matters. Or whatever it takes to represent the UK well overseas. No idea.

Farage is full of charisma, has a silver tongue - and is a duplicitous slippery fuck.

I do not like Starmer.

But we are where we are.

I don’t think they care who is delivering the policies, just what they are and how much we spend v bring in, as you say.