Should I have coached my child for 11+?

[PigeonPairinSomerset]

My child starts secondary in September. She sat the 11+ for a top rated grammar school in the SW and did not gain an eligible score. We were advised by the school at open day not to coach her at all. They insisted their exams are unique and coaching wouldn’t help. They also said that they want children to be able to cope naturally with the workload and not to have had extra help. We found out her standardised score was very close to eligible. We are also now hearing that the vast majority of parents ignore the advice not to coach and some kids have been in tuition for the 11+ for years. I can’t help feeling we have let our child down. The state secondaries where we live are mediocre at best, and we we can’t afford private school. Would you have coached your child? Are you someone that did or didn’t? It’s too late to change the outcome now but I’m interested to hear your opinions!

I did send mine to a tutor. I just didn’t want to take the chance and wanted mine to be in an equal setting to the other kids taking the test. The tutor was known to be very good and had a waiting list. On a different note the tutor was a retired head teacher, making 2k a week in hard cash from classes. I remember one of mine calculating that on the drive home one night🤣

State primaries are apparently not allowed to help at all beyond doing a practice test 2 days prior to the actual one, and writing a headteacher recommendation for those who miss by a few points but are otherwise high achievers. Or at least that the case in Bucks where we live.

We have done tutoring for our daughter through year 5 (1.5 hours group sesdion plus about ab hours homework each week. It has become apparent that although she is bright enough, personality wise grammars are probably not the best fit for her. However, it has still been good for her to be stretched and her class test marks have gone up loads

Should add in our GS classes, most children have birthdays September-January (despite being told that scored are averaged against age, to remove any age bias.

I guess it's more than probable that any given unstreamed class in the GS there would be less range of achievement from high to low, but they study exactly the same syllabus in both GS and High School. Thank goodness. I have older members of family who went to the old Grammars and Secondary Moderns and those in the SM left school having taking no exams, no certificates or anything (1960's). Very sad back then that not passing an exam could set you back so much and lessen any achievement as a child. Thank heavens this changed.

Our local high school also has more choice of subjects to study. There are a lot more students who go there. However it was my DC who wanted Grammar.

Of course you should, everyone does.

We didn't tutor at all, but i did buy the books to practice (although bought the wrong exam board!). The main thing they were useful for was identifying things my DD simply hadn't been taught yet - percentages and algebra spring to mind. Then nearer the exam they practiced test papers as they unlike anything they've done before. And DH tried to teach technique - ie skip questions if you are stuck and then guess at the end if you are running out of time - completely foreign concepts to my DD!

I did start to doubt myself for not tutoring as everyone else seemed to be. But DD got a really good score. And I know lots who tutored and didn't get a place.

I did tutor mine i think most do tbd. Even though it's ridiculous

Not tutoring or coaching, but I did get some past papers so they could practice. It is a bit of a delicate balance IMO. It is true that the child who needs extensive tutoring is more likely to struggle once they are in the school, but, in my area, the competition for selective schools is huge and the state primaries had a policy of absolutely no preparation for the kind of tests that the children will do. That meant they didn't get any exposure to verbal and non verbal reasoning without seeing some past papers. So that is down to parents to sort out.

I don't think many children would be able to complete a non verbal reasoning test at speed without some practice. I also think the maths is a bit more ahead of what they do in school.
I am going back a couple of decades though. There were 4 papers over 2 days. English reading and comprehension, maths, verbal reasoning and non verbal reasoning. The NVR is horrible if you get headaches from black and white lines and squiggles (like me) and that can be a problem for some children.

So yes, IME you do need to prepare them.

My son was on the gifted lift at primary, secondary schools are awful in my home town apart from the grammar...he started tuition in year 6, once a week .. didn't stand a chance, kids he met had been having tuition since 5yrs old, 3 x a week. I think if you don't start when they are in nappies, you won't have a chance

Sadly yes.

Everyone seems to do it here - we're Lincolnshire. We paid for an hours tutoring per week for DD1 from midway through year 5, after realising almost every other child in the class who was sitting their 11+ was being coached. I had only printed off some practice papers before that, and she would sit and do them in the car on long journeys. The fees were too expensive for us really (tutor had a 98% success rate so rates were high!) but I was terrified of her being on the back foot, especially as she was so keen to go. The primary school did nothing to prepare them, not even a practice paper. Thankfully she passed, although I suspect she would have done fine without the lessons - she was smashing the practice papers right from the start. I didn't want to risk it though - local comp is rife with bullying and drugs, and shy DD1 would have been eaten alive.

To be honest, I don't know a single child who's gone to a selective school who hasn't been tutored professionally since I myself was at school 20+ years

Mine have. I'm not a teacher but I "tutored" them by buying them the books and marking them. But yes the vast majority of children have had years of tutoring, some from year 2 or 3.

Although I would say that, contrary to many posts on here, the heavily tutored children did do well in school subsequently too. Even in sixth form they were still being tutored but fared well and went to top universities.

Honestly, OP, don't beat yourself up about this. We put our DD through about a year of coaching. We were warned then that leaving it until year 5 was too late and she should have started in year 4. Then COVID hit. We kept up online coaching but DD could not have been less interested. All my close friends' kids had got into grammars so I though it was vital. DD sat the exams in different boroughs but fell slightly short in all of them. I panicked, mainly that I had damaged her future prospects and potentially her self-esteem. Luckily she could not have given less of a toss.

She went to our local girls' state school and in the 5 years since, has blossomed personally and academically. Over her secondary years, in the odd subject, she has wanted extra support so we got her a tutor which has put her back on track and predicted to do well in her GCSEs across the board. I honestly think now that not having the pressure of grammar has been a good thing for her, and the fact she is at a local school means her friends are local too (admittedly this may not apply to you if you are close to the grammar school but for us, they are all a bit of a trek). This has been a huge bonus for her in terms of allowing her to become independent much sooner as she didn't have to rely on us for lifts every time she wanted to visit school friends.

It sounds like your DD is extremely bright and probably already academically disciplined, and I think people are right that she will do well wherever she goes.

Hi OP. We live in SW too.
My child attends a prep school (year6) and has been prepped from day 1. He was also tutored for 11+. As far as I know, every child in his year was privately tutored for the 11+.
At a parents meeting, the teachers were asking parents to ease off on the tutoring and the amount of hours they had their kids prepping ahead of the exams.
These parents are high flyers and have the money to throw at tutors.

My child received offered from the schools he applied for. We didn’t apply for scholarship as we decided to relocate abroad, but that’s on hold now due to the current war. He would have definitely received a few sports scholarships had we applied.

I don’t regret tutoring my child although we only did so for 4 months before the exams. His CAT scores / age standardised scores jumped so high in them 4 months that if we started earlier he could’ve got into the grammar school he really wanted in Kingston.
I’m talking jumping from 108 to 133, 112 to 139. All his scores went up. The most surprising score was 142 which is the highest score you can get.

He has learnt skills that he can use throughout his secondary school. I’m so proud of him and I’ve always been by his side through his whole journey. It was always his choice to have tutoring as he was enjoying his lessons and he even discovered a love for maths.

We decided to accept a state school that he did the Wandsworth test on. He’s excited as a few others from his class will be joining him.

Of course I will get him tutors for GCSE prep.

Now to focus on my 4 year old starting with reading every day and practising handwriting. She will get a choice too when she’s older and I will never push her.

I went to the only state school in my small home town. Ended up with 2 degrees and a career I really thrived in.

I love the idea of investing time and effort into my kids education and MH.

If I was you then yes I would have done some familiarisation tests and possibly some tutoring or at least a test to see what her scores are and if they are close to what the school requires.

I think your daughter will do fantastic at the school she is at. She sounds intelligent and well rounded. Is she almost got into a grammar with zero help them imagine how far she will go with some tutoring in her GCSE’s. I wish her the best of luck.

Sorry but this is rubbish!

My DD did some practice booklets at home with me and I set her some timed tests to get an idea of how long you get and she got into a top grammar.

And no, they absolutely don’t need tutoring to learn how to cope with the school! If they’re bright enough to get in and you don’t go nuts and become a pushy parent they’ll be fine.

OP I am so sorry you find yourself in this position. I’m sorry the school told you that when secretly all the parents are tutoring their kids. I know the school are meant to say the test is untutorable, but they could have said that and left it there, not push so hard, as the school will know that some parents tutor hard.

I guess they’re trying to stop the kids who aren’t academically able getting a place and then struggling, but they should have said “but many parents do still tutor” to give you a fair chance. Can you follow up with the school or appeal the decision?

I have two summer-born boys who are thriving at grammar and very nearly didn’t tutor as I was also told not to tutor as the test isn’t tutorable, if they are bright then they’ll pass and tutoring means they’ll get in and then struggle with the workload. However, luckily a parent I met at school told me to tutor as everyone tutored, so I got my eldest 6 months of weekly lessons and put my youngest on a waiting list.

When I put my youngest on a waiting list 4 years before I was hugely embarrassed and apologised for being ridiculously early to put his name down and enquired if the tutor would create a list. She replied saying she already had the list 50% completed and I would need to be flexible on the tutoring day as those ahead of me would get the choice of day first (effectively I was LATE to putting his name down). It is madness and hugely unfair, but I joined the circus.

In my area a lot of kids successfully appeal. @PigeonPairinSomerset Check out the 11+ forum website for support. Most people I know that have appealed are kids that were heavily tutored and still missed the pass mark, and STILL get a place, but it is these kids that go on to struggle at school because ultimately they aren’t academically able and their parents refuse to accept this and just set them up for a struggle. I think if the your daughter just missed that mark without tutoring then she is a very bright kid and you should be so proud. I’d start with seeing if you can appeal, and then if that doesn’t work, see if there is an entry point in future years, or just settle on the school she will go to and forget all the 11+ nonsense.

In our case there were also areas in learning which the primary school hadn’t covered, if it hadn’t been for the tutoring we wouldn’t have realised.
We aren’t in an area where there are Grammars so most don’t go to one, our Son has super bright friends who would have also passed the 11 plus if they had chosen to take it.
The primary our children go to is nice but average in many ways. Our Son has coasted through it, when I asked why he was helping other children in their learning instead of being given more work the teacher explained that they had an ability in that class ranging over 4 years, and no TA.
He as I’ve mentioned had a weekly tutoring group from year 5 and practice exams at local secondary school.
He was always in the top 1/3 of those exams even at the start, but the first couple he ran out of time on.
On the actual 11 plus exam children were coming out crying because it had been hard and it was so sad to see. The pressure they must have felt must have been high. In our case we always said he would go to the same lovely high school as his brother if he didn’t pass it and I think he knew we would have preferred him to go that way but we supported his choice.

I didn’t as the school where he sat the exam advised against it. I didn’t want to put too much pressure on him.
We just used the practice papers on their website. My son passed his 11+ and starts at the Grammar school in September.
I know children who were tutored and didn’t pass.
I spoke to a teacher at his school who said that one of her peers at school (a local school, known to be very pushy with their students) learnt how to pass the 11+ by constantly practicing NVR tests but really struggled at the school once she was in so it almost did her an injustice.
I think it just comes down to the individual child.

It’s a broken system. But yes, it’s rare that a child who gains entry isn’t tutored in some way. Even a parent who is capable sitting with them every week a year or two ahead of it. But it’s extremely common to go through tutoring and mock exams are essential.

You just listened to the bad advice they spew - you haven’t let her down

If she's a bright kid she'll be fine at a mediocre school. My dc went to schools that munsnet wouldn't touch with a bargepole and did well.

I'd disagree that grammar get better teachers. I have taught in both comps and grammar. Grammar tend to have less creative teachers, and the ones who are less equipped to teach a range of learners. They tend to stay for a ges, for fear of change. So many at the school I am at now went to a grammar and can't imagine what compa re really like. I find comps more dynamic and challenging, but fun.

That’s very heartening to hear! Thanks for all your hard work.

I didn’t mean to denigrate teachers in comps either btw, I apologise for that, my wording was careless. My own parents were teachers in secondary schools, and very passionate about quality education for all, not just a few.

My issue is with a system that favours kids whose parents can afford and/or understand the need to organise tutoring, over those that don’t have that resource. I live in an 11+ county where all the talk is about how to get your kid through this exam and into grammar. I hope to move out of the is county before my child reaches primary age, as I don’t agree with the system. Of course I want him in a good secondary school, that’s what I want for all kids.

I’m so sorry OP, but yes, tutoring for the 11 plus is extremely common, in fact I would say it is more common than not.

Take heart from the fact that your child is bright enough that they did well despite the lack of tutoring. And if teaching isn’t brilliant at their school, consider getting really interesting tutors while at secondary school so they still get a good education and stay engaged with learning (the real problem with being much brighter than peers is getting bored and then complacent).