Should I have coached my child for 11+?

[PigeonPairinSomerset]

My child starts secondary in September. She sat the 11+ for a top rated grammar school in the SW and did not gain an eligible score. We were advised by the school at open day not to coach her at all. They insisted their exams are unique and coaching wouldn’t help. They also said that they want children to be able to cope naturally with the workload and not to have had extra help. We found out her standardised score was very close to eligible. We are also now hearing that the vast majority of parents ignore the advice not to coach and some kids have been in tuition for the 11+ for years. I can’t help feeling we have let our child down. The state secondaries where we live are mediocre at best, and we we can’t afford private school. Would you have coached your child? Are you someone that did or didn’t? It’s too late to change the outcome now but I’m interested to hear your opinions!

I know someone who is 77 years old - his parents were told in no uncertain terms that he would never pass the 11 plus and get into grammar school. His parents paid for coaching and against expectations, he passed the exam and was admitted to grammar school where he scraped a couple of O levels and then found himself hopelessly out of his depth at 6th form. He dropped out, never worked in a real job and has claimed benefits continuously since that summer of 1976 when he decided that working in a bakery was too hot for his liking.

I think he would have had a better, more interesting and productive life if he had gone to a secondary modern and learned a trade instead of being given false hopes and aspirations.

I don’t think they’re “failures” either, but the system does. The opposite of passing a test, is failing it.

I am recalling memories from older family members who sat the 11+ at a time when grammars and secondary moderns were the standard, they still now talk about “failing”.

Did they even cover the maths needed ?
Stuff on 11 + is often not even taught yet !
I stupidly didnt do any help with DC and he scraped over the line maths weak ..
Very fast he became top of the school ,top 5% and I bet he had lowest 11 plus score which just shows.

Try for the 12 and 13 plus and get a tutor

As others have said, many schools say that their exams are 'tutor proof' but no one belives tha and nearly all get a tutor. If for no other reason that parts of the exam content will not yet have been taught in school yet. And with the writing exercises, even with a child who is good at writing, it helps to know how to focus them and what kinds of things the exams are looking for.

In our households 11+ prep started in year 4. Did you really not research this before?

2 children. Older child passed 11+ into grammar school. Younger child just missed out and went to a secondary modern that we were very happy with. Neither child received 11+ tuition, only a few practised papers bought from WH Smith so they knew what to expect. Both children did extemely well at their schools. I do understand your regret when the non grammar option isn’t great and other parents were getting their children coached. Is there an option to try again at a later stage?

They are less smart though.

Do you understand that putting the nice privileged grammar kids in state schools will not improve the behaviour of the children already in them? It is well known that disruptive behaviour only drags down the hard working children who are sat next to them in an attempt to rub food behaviour off on them.

We are also in the South West and considering whether to have our child sit the 11+ it may well be the same school. I have such mixed feelings about it all and have also listened to the school about not tutoring. I wanted to keep our approach very laid back so that there is no anxiety or pressure about taking the exam but maybe I’m very naive. Her friend is being tutored and has been for the last couple of years.

I just don't understand the obsession with "failing"

I sat the 11+, so I know you can't fail it. I came in at place 211 out of 1200, I didn't get in because they only took the top 150. I was waiting listed but obviously 61 kids weren't going to drop out. I never felt like I'd failed, I did better than nearly 1000 other kids which is bloody good! There just 210 kids smarter than me. I learned that there would always be people better than me. It didn't harm me, it was a lesson I needed to learn after always being top of the class at primary. I'm still proud of ranking in the top 20%. No feelings of failure here.

I went to an academy instead, the first few years I learned fuck all while the naughty kids disrupted every class and I was invariably sat next to them to "rub off on them" which of course never worked, they just bullied me instead. After year 9 we were all setted and I did really well, I've had a very successful career since. I've never harboured any resentment for the grammar kids, they deserve the environment they got they achieved it by outperforming the rest of us. It's how life is. I did really well as well but only after I got away from all the disruptive behaviour and into a more grammar like environment where I was only taught in classes with peers of equal ability. Every child deserves those opportunities, if I had gone to grammar I would have got that experience for all of my high school years not just half of them, every child exceptional enough to get into that environment deserves it. They wouldn't achieve as highly in a mainstream school and why would anyone want that for any reason other than spite?

I was the same as you. I wanted it to not feel pressured, and the school made a very convincing case for not coaching. I really bought into it, thinking kids with too much help may struggle with the workload. But seems I was very naive and most other parents ignored this.

Absolutely agree with the point about - for example - non verbal reasoning. Just glance through one of the books in any book store as a reasonably well educated adult and you will see that trying to do it under time pressure when no one had taught you the techniques to figure out the answers would be hopeless. At my DCs’ prep they have weekly lessons in NVR at and VR from the start of year 4. Presented to the kids as the “fun words and picture games” lesson on Friday afternoon, but that’s what it actually is.

Really sorry OP but you were extremely naive. While I agree that a child who needs years of tutoring won’t be a good fit for the school, you wouldn’t send your child in for any other test - eg music exam, spelling test, ballet/gymnastics, Cubs badge, etc, without helping them practice and familiarising them with what would be involved. Why would this be any different?

This is so sad.
We had a local tutor that was ruthless with feedback...

She'd tell you if she didn't think the child was suitable.
She'd also tell those who were brilliant and had nailed the techniques that they no longer needed her, so could practise at home.

It probably helped that she had a 2-3 years waiting list, so could afford to be honest.

Or there's not enough places. When my DD did her 11plus there was something like 1000 girls sitting the exam for her school. Only 135 places.

The rest aren't automatic ally " less smart"

And you can be smart in more than just being good at certain types of tests

This was the argument the school gave for imploring parents NOT to tutor - they didn’t want kids to struggle with the workload

I have not proposed to put grammar school children into non-selective secondary schools to improve behaviour anywhere. You are reading things in my posts that are not there. Taking privileged children out of the mainstream system sucks up resource and good teachers and furthers inequality.

do you understand that not everyone who doesn’t get in to grammar school has a behavioural issue? That lots of children who don’t get into grammar school have aspirations, want to be able to learn and have consistent teachers and apply themselves at school, and suffer from the disruptive behaviour of others? Or do you just not give a crap?

Investing time, skill, money, making schools attractive places to teach and using evidence based pedagogical approaches in state schools is required to create optimal learning environments for children from a cross section of society. Most state schools have sets to allow children of similar ability to be taught together, I don’t know why you are reacting as if secondary schools are a soup of mixed ability classes day in day out as standard, they’re not.

this is now derailing and I will be leaving it there.

When you put it like this, I do feel really naive. The school made such a convincing argument. And they insisted that the subject matter of the tests would have been covered in their primary school lessons. I bought it and now feel so stupid.

It's very rare a child doesn't get coaching for 11 plus. I'm in an area that does 11 plus. Those children I know who are sitting the 11 plus every single one is having coaching for 2 years prior

It depends on how your brain works, but there are a substantial number of children who can sit down and ace those tests. The VR and NVR parts are essentially an IQ test. You can coach someone to gain a couple of points here and there but you can't really increase someone's IQ by a large amount.

The maths and English potentially can be improved, although very bright children will just "get" it. But then you have, for example, vocabulary. There's 100,000 words in the English language. Tuition centres will make a big show of giving out lists of words and testing them every week but the chances of any of those words actually coming up is almost zero. The only way a child is going to have a vocabulary which allows them to sail through that test is because they are reading a wide range of high quality texts and fully absorbing the words in context. You can't tutor it.

Well done to your daughter for doing so well without the intensive coaching so many parents push.

Know so many kids that had endless coaching to get them through 11+

They got into the highly selective school - then parents had to continue endless coaching to try to keep up and kid subjected to endless pressure .

a super bright child that is suitable for grammar school may need a little exam technique coaching to help them pass but not years of hot housing.

so many ‘average’ kids are being forced into high attaining school by being super coached and basically being set up to fail or a life of endless additional coaching because of parental aspirations.

i’s rather my kid enjoyed life in a normal school than have to face years of coaching and pressure to go to a school that is above their ability.

This is true. Hence why I wouldn't have dreamed of attempting to get my other 2 in grammar. They would've needed coaching both to get in and likely throughout school

Better to do well in a comp than struggle in a grammar

Hi OP I don’t know if this helps but twice in my life, in two separate areas, I have known groups of children who’ve attended the same secondary schools. Looking at them now, some are adults with their own children in the first area, others are Y6 onwards. Most are doing really well. Invariably the ones who did and are doing well had involved and interested parents who prioritised their children’s education. The parents were and are of very differing backgrounds, some on high salaries and professional jobs, others working at an hourly rate on the minimum wage. They’re all interested in what their children do and involve themselves in their children’s lives.

Neitg of the schools were / are anything special

Yes, and no it should not be that way. However mine go to grammar and all children that got the required mark to be admitted had tuition in year 5 (and some before this). We had a few months and also a couple of sessions of mock exams. I was a bit shocked some children had received tuition since years 2 or 3 to 'work towards' grammar.

If you look at sample papers I would imagine most children would not be used to the style of questions that are asked, especially NVR.

Very good point!!! Don’t beat yourself up OP. There may be other opportunities to get her into the school for an occasional job place later. And you could contact the school and explain this was your DC with literally no preparation or help at all. But odds are she will be fine and do well wherever you send her.