AIBU to think that Reform pose a real threat to UK democracy?

[Sherbs12]

Reform’s unelected chairman, Zia Yusuf, has announced that Reform will build detention centres housing immigrants waiting for deportation in areas which vote Green (or rather those which don’t Reform). They call this ‘an exercise in democratic consent’ and it’s been - rightfully - condemned by all other parties.

Last week he was threatening to ‘carpet bomb’ areas in which their MP had voted a certain way in parliament.

Obviously, this is detracting from the discovery that Farage received a £5million donation in 2024 when he seemingly changed his mind and decided to run as an MP.

So, while politics can be heated, all parties are open to criticism, we can debate the reasons behind the rise of Reform, AIBU to say that this approach from Reform is unacceptable in a democracy and an alarming indicator of how they would be in government?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/zia-yusuf-reform-uk-migration_uk_69f8483de4b06e9242f51ba4/

It's very naughty but after a read of the comments below the line under the Times' report on the policy, there are a great many people rather relishing the idea.

Prior to detention, yes ?

As though the Reform mob would bother with fine print…

We have a judicial system with courts and laws and appeals

They’re not interested in that. See how they want to remove the ECHR ?

I agree with that as well. We have our own domestic laws and courts. We need not be party to a foreign court.

It’s not a “foreign court”. It’s ours too.

It is. It's in Strasbourg. It's hindered UK gov policy so many times. It stopped Rwanda.

Reform have said they won't deport UK citizens at all.

No I'm not

I think you should educate yourself as to what concentration camps were like. As I said it’s a disgusting comparison, absolutely sickening

The whole migrant centres in Green constituencies is a silly bit of attention seeking, albeit with thoroughly gross ideology behind it. The idea is totally unworkable - like they'll be able to find somewhere suitable to put a detention centre just anywhere? And guarantee it'll be in a neighbourhood where people mostly voted for their opponents?

Good luck to them finding a site for a detention centre in a dense, urban neighbourhood, and besides, if, as they claim, people would not be allowed out of the detention centre, why would anyone be bothered about their being there? Also I presume to be of any use, such centres need to be near where migrants might have come in by unofficial routes or near airports for deportations?

But the whole attitude is gross though - totally out of the Trump playbook where you are obsessed with attacking the people you see as political enemies and their voters, which is not how politics should work and I am glad other parties have unilaterally called them out for proposing such a thing (however improbable it actually is to carry out)

I think it highlights is a clumsy way that being liberal is a privilege and a lot of people will actually change their votes when they are impacted personally- there is a lot of - not in my back yard etc

However, it won’t work. The benefit system needs reworking and that way there would be no incentive for anyone immigrants or not who don’t want to contribute

It probably is unworkable and a gimmick , but I do actually like a more direct democracy approach. There’s a lot of self righteousness about voting for tax rises you don’t have to pay, mass migration when you don’t suffer the negative consequences and soft touch on crime when you don’t live in an area where it’s an issue. It would be great to see it actually put into action and for people to put their money where their mouth is. Definitely would be interested in other ideas along this line.

Just because it’s located in Strasbourg doesn’t make the institution itself “foreign” given that we’re part of it; a founder of it in fact.

There are many international / cross border institutions that we are full members of that are located in other countries, but that doesn’t make the institution itself “foreign”.

I am not referring to Nazi death camps.

A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for the internment of political prisoners or politically targeted demographics, such as members of national or ethnic minority groups, on the grounds of national security, or for exploitation or punishment.

The British have used them in the past to detain - among others - Irish people, Kenyans, Boers, Jewish people and Chinese people.

I don’t think it’s something we need to repeat.

It is foreign. It directly overrules UK government. We should just ignore it. It is part of the council of Europe and is not part of the UK Judiciary.

We are founding members of the Council of Europe.

We’re as much an integral part of it as every other member. Or do you think France is the only “true” member ?

Are you saying ICE detention centres (even when used by Obama and Biden) were "concentration camps".

Are you saying people entering the national illegally should not be detained?

Leave it.

People seeking asylum and undergoing due process for that are not “illegal”.

Why ?

Texas bussed thousands of immigrants to Sanctuary cities further North, NYC, Chicago and Washington received them. They are Blue states. So what they have said has actually sort of happened through in another country. This has been ongoing since 2022. You can look it up, I have relatives that are American citizens.

They are usually undocumented-we have no idea who they are. We need to keep people separated until we do. It’s common sense

It shouldn’t be ‘left’ while people misunderstand

and that includes people lurking

Sovereignty

If the detention centres as used under previous administrations included the same issues of unexplained deaths (including physically impossible 'suicides'), starvation, sexual assault, traumatisation of children, removal of basic rights as we're seeing in the centres under Trump then yes they would deserve that name.

The lesson of the 2nd world war was never meant to be "this was a one off evil event that will never happen again", it was "there is a flaw in human nature that allows us to tolerate incredible cruelty if the victims are othered enough. We need to learn from this and act sooner next time."

My grandmother (who served in the army supporting survivors at Belgen Belsen in 1945) taught me that was the entire point of poems like "they came for..."