AIBU to think that Reform pose a real threat to UK democracy?

[Sherbs12]

Reform’s unelected chairman, Zia Yusuf, has announced that Reform will build detention centres housing immigrants waiting for deportation in areas which vote Green (or rather those which don’t Reform). They call this ‘an exercise in democratic consent’ and it’s been - rightfully - condemned by all other parties.

Last week he was threatening to ‘carpet bomb’ areas in which their MP had voted a certain way in parliament.

Obviously, this is detracting from the discovery that Farage received a £5million donation in 2024 when he seemingly changed his mind and decided to run as an MP.

So, while politics can be heated, all parties are open to criticism, we can debate the reasons behind the rise of Reform, AIBU to say that this approach from Reform is unacceptable in a democracy and an alarming indicator of how they would be in government?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/zia-yusuf-reform-uk-migration_uk_69f8483de4b06e9242f51ba4/

The mental gymnastics that must have taken place to get to this conclusion is remarkable:

"I don't have a problem with asylum seekers settling in my area. But since I can easily imagine Reform-run detention centres being an absolute hot-bed of human rights abuses and safeguarding failures, I'd rather not have those in my area"

I’m not a Green voter, by the way, and I’m never ok with anti-semitism. Whether the Green Party have an issue with this or not is a separate debate. As is Farage’s history of antisemitism and racism in his youth, or Reform’s reported issue with Islamophobia. Absolutely essential that all of this is addressed and investigated.

However, as I’ve already said, this isn’t about party politics - we cannot accept any political party senior figures making threats to the electorate regarding their voting.

It should be remembered, also, that many areas aren’t having elections this year so it’s going to be difficult to extrapolate any meaningful data on the national mood from them

It's not mental gymnastics, and obviously you've chosen to cut out the bit where I make clear I would not want Reform-run detention centres to exist in any area. My issue is with Reform, who are not fit to run organisations that house vulnerable people.

When I saw this late last night I assumed it was from a parody account given how truly ridiculous and unworkable it is. And people here saying it’s a sensible suggestion. Madness.

I’m concerned that Farage was given a £5 million donation just before he ran as an MP; I’m concerned that the former Reform Leader for Wales pleaded guilty to accepting bribes from Russia; I’m concerned that an unelected chairman bought his way into a political party and is making threats about what he’ll do when in power if people don’t vote his way and I’m concerned by the experience of the many non-Reform prospective councillors across the country detailing the harassment, abuse and threats they’ve been subjected to by Reform campaigners. I could go on. I’m concerned about what all this means for our democracy.

From the BBC - these are not the same style of detention centres. They are camps. Which they want to spend 12bn on. To ‘punish’ the Greens. It’s a Trumpian policy - politics of spite and pettiness. I mean it’s going real well for America…

BTW I am not a Green supporter. I think most of them are lunatics. But this kind of blind walking into what we’ve seen destroy the US is insane.

‘No government has ever tried to build prison-like detention facilities for 24,000 people in 18 months - the time scales envisaged by Reform - or at the cost claimed.

For detention facilities to be escape-proof, they have to be the equivalent of what's known as a "Category B" prison - which means there are walls and locked doors, wings and gates everywhere with a suitable level of staffing.

Reform UK also said it would introduce a Mass Deportation Detention Act, to give the home secretary powers to stop councils blocking the opening of detention centres.
The party said that people placed in the centres would not be able to leave and would stay there for about two weeks before being deported.

Official figures from the current prison programme show that it costs about £500,000 per bed to build such "closed" facilities - and that is broadly the design standard used for immigration removal centres too.

That means that if the party in government were to build 24,000 new detention spaces to that standard, it would cost about £12bn.’

Whilst I agree, if you choose just one party and ignore the threatening nature of another party you’re not giving the full picture. You would be better talking about extreme politics to the left and right. After the last few weeks especially many people feel a lot more threatened by the Green Party than Reform and quite frankly many people will see it as very good to try and curtail the Green vote for the sake of safety of large parts of the voting demographic.

The green party manifesto does not include open borders. It expresses a wish for a world without borders but explicitly states it would control immigration.

One reason I vote green is that I want this country to uphold its legal requirements to appropriately review claims for asylum. So a detention centre where 1000s of refugees are imprisoned prior to automatic detention is 100% against my wishes. House refugees in my area while processing claims - absolutely. We have charities and community groups and volunteers to help support them. House them here after granting asylum, likewise. But don't create prisons we expressly voted against and dump them here.

Have any of you got a sense of humour? Detention centres for those refused asylum at least stops them disappearing into the night and may even reduce the pull factor this country radiates. Now you all need to get a grip and wait and see, getting all excited won’t do anybody any good.

Just take immigration, benefits and party politics out of the equation for now, the big question remains: are you happy for a senior party political figure, who may potentially form a government, to be making threats about what they’ll do in power to communities where the majority don’t vote in their favour? Either you support that, or you don’t. It’s really simple. I don’t support it and see it as a danger to our democratic system. What about you?

I recognise your point that communities feel threatened by different political parties, but my post isn’t about left vs right - it is specifically about Yusuf’s comments being a threat to our democratic voting system and while this specific ‘policy’ is clearly deranged, it gives us a warning of what is likely to come if Reform gain power. It isn’t about not agreeing with their politics (although I don’t!), it’s the threats aimed at the electorate and MPs based on the way they vote.

Are you ok with the amount of anti semitism in the party? It’s clear there is no intention to address it?

But every party effectively does this, jjust more covertly. Can you imagine what it would like being a Jew under the Green Party? That is far more of a concern

You are sounding a bit of a NIMBY.

The Conservative cabinet in the 80s discussed ‘managed decline’ as their approach to dealing with Merseyside. You could argue that there was no malice in this, just a hard approach to a struggling economy, or you could argue that it was a response to the challenge from Militant, or broader support for the Left. Strong rejection of Thatcherite economics also came from the Church - there was no way Bishop Sheppard was ever going to be promoted to Canterbury.

The exception in the Thatcher cabinet of course was Michael Heseltine who made a genuine commitment to regeneration and is well respected here.

My initial thought was "I mean that's fair. Giving the people in those areas what they voted for."

But then I thought about those who didn't vote for this. And then also that no-one should be put in danger regardless.

It's not a threat. They're giving the voters what they're voting for.

Every party introduces policies with the aim of threatening communities because the majority don’t vote for them? What examples of this have previously happened?

Even Rupert Lowe didn't agree

Where exactly do I sound like a NIMBY? Feel free to quote where there is evidence of this. Reform weaponise immigration, we know this, but my post isn’t about immigration, it could be about policies on other issues - it’s the premise of threatening people in relation to voting intention.

Still not answering my question, I see!

With this kind of thread and the (mostly tax avoidant) media whipping up anti foreigner fervour, this is always the image I think of.

Newsflash. Websites can be edited in seconds. The 'open borders' reference was there up until 1st May. It was removed just after those two jewish men were stabbed and Mr Polanski decided to stand with the terrorist and everyone rounded on him.

Take a look on the Wayback Machine to see what the Green Party website was saying in March.