Paramedics made my father go to hospital

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My father has atrial fibrillation. He has had this for years.

He has been told multiple times what to do in the case of an episode of AF. Today, he had one while I was visiting. It took a long time to pass, so in line with his consultant’s plan my mother called 999, after the usual medications had been given at home.

In the time it took for the paramedics to arrive, the attack passed and when they did arrive, it had been nearly an hour since it had ended.

They still made him go to hospital as they “couldn’t rule out a heart attack”, despite my father insisting that he knows his body, knows what an AF episode feels like and knows when it has passed. All he wanted was to go to bed and sleep off the effects of the beta blockers he had taken.

They still essentially made him go to hospital, saying that they would make him sign forms if he didn’t which showed he had refused medical advice. I was present and the paramedics essentially made it sound as though he would be at the back of the queue if it returned and he needed an ambulance again.

Fast forward 10 hours and he’s still in hospital, no doctors available to read his ECG or his blood test results, and he’s been sleeping in a hard plastic chair. AIBU to think this is ridiculous? Paramedics really shouldn’t be encouraging patients to attend hospital when it’s not necessary.

I can well imagine! You are valued though by some (me).

If they did say “If you have a heart attack later, we will not send an ambulance” then of course you should complain. It’s obviously an awful thing to say and not something I would think is policy.

OP has also said:-

They also made it sound like there wouldn’t be an ambulance later for him if needed.

and

Their insinuation was that a second ambulance wouldn’t be sent

So it depends on which one you take notice off 🤷‍♀️

The OP said "I was present and the paramedics essentially made it sound as though he would be at the back of the queue if it returned and he needed an ambulance again."

That's simply unacceptable. It's bullying.

If the NHS staff didn't have the "attitude" problem, there'd have been no need to involve PALS etc.

It's amazing how they "magic" up doctors and treatments once a formal complaint is made.

It's why everyone should have an advocate with them, especially if they're not well enough to advocate for themselves.

Poor treatment is not acceptable in any way shape nor form.

Luckily an ambulance was sent in good time and he’s well

be thankful

Or his turn just came up?

But OP thinks that the threats worked!

And he could’ve advocated for himself, because he was fine anyway!

It’s very common I’m afraid.

I had this (heart related suspected but was simply acid-reflux) and was taken in on thursday afternoon and didn’t get discharged until tuesday teatime - and had no medical treatment beyond what I take at home whilst I was in for those 5 nights

You must understand why they do this ... blame culture and need to ensure will not be sued. At the end if the day its your father's decision and can decline.

Neither is calling an ambulance when apparently the patient didn’t need to be in hospital.

The paramedics cannot force you to go to hospital. You can decide not to go with them but they will ask you to sign a disclaimer form.

They don’t ‘magic up doctors’ when a formal complaint is made - they are forced to take doctors away from other people who need them.
I'm not saying that complaints aren’t necessary or warranted, just that they trigger a process other than clinical imperative, rather than some lazy member of staff deciding to get of their arse.

Sorry, quoted wrong person!

It isn’t bullying. It’s the truth. If three hours later he’d rung again he wouldn’t have got priority because he’d already rung once that day. He wouldn’t be triaged and an ambulance would be sent depending on priority. You’d be amazed how many people would say they should take priority because they’d declined an ambulance earlier and had now changed their mind, seem to think that crew should drop everything and return. It would be negligent to not point that out.

i can’t believe that a paramedic actually said the phase “back of the queue” because there is no back of the queue. It’s not first come first served. It’s not the meat counter at Morrisons and you take a ticket and wait for your number to be called. There is no queue. OP is blatantly paraphrasing to make it sound bad/is remembering what she wants to remember/and is not bright enough to understand what was meant,

The key thing in her post was “essentially made it sound”…….ie; never actually said that. I fully believe they would have said if he rang again he might have to wait as there would be no priority for him. due to the previous call. Correct. But that is not saying he’s back of the queue.

They did their job exactly as supposed to. Paramedics aren't cardiologists and would always ask for cardiac issues even long-standing to be reviewed. He could have signed the paperwork and stayed home, but didn't. They did a fantastic job. You are being unreasonable. Imagine if he went into FAF and died , I don't think the wait is a problem at all.

No. You can’t just get someone to sign a piece of paper saying they agree not to go to hospital/take responsibility. You have to be explicit about potential implications and document what implications have been discussed. Otherwise if the patient drops down dead three hours later the family sue and say “oh the paramedics never told us he might die, etc”. Hopefully the crew will be commended by their manager for being thorough and following policy.

You don't have medical training, this is not your call. They are being cautious and looking out for complications that you may not appreciate. People are not admitted to hospital for no reason. Be glad that he is being examined properly. There may be a wait but it's worth it.

Health care professionals are “damned if they do, damned if they don’t”. Your mum called 999 and they responded. I’m not sure why you’re so annoyed now. Nothing is stopping your dad from discharging himself from hospital. Sounds to me like it’s an inconvenience to you that he’s there rather than having any concern for your father’s health. As a retired nurse/midwife I had to make decisions based on knowledge, information and experience I had at that time. Paramedics are doing the same. Stop moaning.

Does your father have a ReSPECT form?

did they actually say “if you have a heart attack we will not send another ambulance”. I’m absolutely shocked at that.

Exactly, I wanted clarification from the OP as it seems different things were said 🧐

Not all heart attacks are obvious. My first one was a severe pain which I managed for two days because I already had an appointment booked in with the Doctor. When I got there she blue lighted me to the hospital who said I was having another. They put two stents in there and then.

I fail to understand how you can come on here and post like this. The paramedics did what they are trained to do. Would you be of the same opinion if your Daddy had been left at home and then died. Whatever happened to be safe rather than sorry.

I get you are frustrated being left for so long but to come on here and post this is just ridiculous. All treatment plans have moved on from those we were all given many years ago and you should bear that in mind rather than looking at it like it is an inconvenience to you or worse, that the medics overstepped and require reporting as suggested earlier.

I get you are scared and perhaps not reacting like you would normally do, but your Daddy is actually in the right place for him now even though it might not seem so given waiting times.

There is also another point you need to take into consideration and that is any Life Assurance policies. If your Daddy refused treatment or his family and something happened thereafter, the policy may well not pay out.

I hope by now you are all home and safe.

You ARE being unreasonable!

It took them 1hr after his symptoms stopped to get to you, which means they were busy as it was. Why didn’t you try to cancel the ambulance sooner if you didn’t think it was serious enough to need hospitalisation? + If your father had had another episode which required a very quick response, your father would indeed have been left in a very precarious situatio. If the woes had happened, you would have wished they had said that. Whilst it is annoying you need to consider what would have been the most likely scenario if your dad had had an episode which was much more serious & the ambulance genuinely couldn’t get to you quickly enough