Paramedics made my father go to hospital

[wecangoupupup]

My father has atrial fibrillation. He has had this for years.

He has been told multiple times what to do in the case of an episode of AF. Today, he had one while I was visiting. It took a long time to pass, so in line with his consultant’s plan my mother called 999, after the usual medications had been given at home.

In the time it took for the paramedics to arrive, the attack passed and when they did arrive, it had been nearly an hour since it had ended.

They still made him go to hospital as they “couldn’t rule out a heart attack”, despite my father insisting that he knows his body, knows what an AF episode feels like and knows when it has passed. All he wanted was to go to bed and sleep off the effects of the beta blockers he had taken.

They still essentially made him go to hospital, saying that they would make him sign forms if he didn’t which showed he had refused medical advice. I was present and the paramedics essentially made it sound as though he would be at the back of the queue if it returned and he needed an ambulance again.

Fast forward 10 hours and he’s still in hospital, no doctors available to read his ECG or his blood test results, and he’s been sleeping in a hard plastic chair. AIBU to think this is ridiculous? Paramedics really shouldn’t be encouraging patients to attend hospital when it’s not necessary.

In which case you should have cancelled the ambulance then. Can't you just be grateful he's OK and not suffered a heart attack or stroke. Who put in the complaint, you or your parents? Next time he may not be so lucky.

This is why my DH has refused to go in the past.

Unfortunately these places are filthy ,crowded and extremely uncomfortable!! The last place unwell people should be held for hours and hours and hours !

Op I feel for your dad ..I was in one recently and it was a waste of time the whole thing and so uncomfortable ... Why is it so hard to design a room with patients in pain in mind ???

Also those ambulance people won't have any say whether he gets another ambulance or not.

I don't think the hospitals want people going in particularly so I think they only encouraged it because they were worried it might be necessary.

I'm not really sure what you are wanting them to do. He could have not gone and signed, so he had an option and if he does know his body as you say, perhaps he should have done that.

I understand your frustration that he sat there for ages, but I think you are directing your annoyance at the wrong bit of the system.

Why did you ring an ambulance if you didn't want help? Why didn't you cancel it when he felt better? The demand and entitlement continues to amaze me

The paramedics wouldn't be making that decision, no one would make it.
But a 2nd ambulance might not arrive IN TIME, that's what they mean. And if it doesn't arrive in time, it's the same outcome as if it was never sent at all. So by turning them away, he effectively was taking the chance that there would be no ambulance when he needed it.

My dad gets AF. Dad is terrified of it. Not something he just lives with. Many a rushed trip to hospital in ambulances.

So maybe they were legitimately concerned that if he declined and then needed an ambulance later there might not be one available because of the event in town. You seem to have taken it as a threat that one wouldn't be sent because he had refused to go, not that there literally might not be an ambulance available later in the day.

I'm struggling to understand why you would follow the advice of the Consultant to call 999 when he apparently knows his body so well and didn't have any concerns. They've arrived and assessed him and then what? The Paramedics careers/professional reputation/conscience is at risk if they couldn't rule out a heart attack etc. but had chosen to walk away and leave him. This is why there is the disclaimer to say someone is exercising their free will and is choosing not to attend hospital. He had that choice and I think you're being very unfair. In future leave the ambulance for someone who will appreciate it.

DS2 is an advanced nurse practitioner in A&E. He’d sooner no one was coming in tbh. He’d much rather people were well and accident free, living their lives in the community but in reality it’s not like that. He’s had shifts where every patient he’s seen has been on the back of an ambulance because there’s been no where to put them in the department.

I don’t know how the staff in A&E and paramedics do it, tbh. One encounter with someone like @wecangoupupup would have me reaching for my coat and I’d not go back.

HNRTFT but if he was in AF the paramedics have to cover their arses. They cannot insist ,but the risk of throwing a blood clot to his brain is high if he went back into AF .

I find it staggering that the OP thinks because their father didn’t see a doctor that he was being ignored. The doctors working will have known what was going on. Just because they hadn’t spoke to him personally wouldn’t mean they weren’t dealing with him. No doubt dealing with more urgent cases. They would have spoken with him as soon as their other patients are stable enough. The cardiologist on duty (maybe even the OP’s father’s actual consultant) would also have known that one of their patients is in hospital. He had his initial observations taken and as far as all medical staff are concerned he was in the best place to receive emergency treatment had he needed it fast. When it was clear he didn’t they discharged him. And the OP has complained about being poorly treated. 🤦‍♀️

They have to strongly suggest if they fear there is a problem - but the patient can refuse to go if they wish, but they have to sign a form to absent responsibility from the paramedics.

Equally your dad does not have to stay in hospital for 10 hours, he can sign a discharge waiver, again taking responsibility for his health and go home.

They can only keep you in if they put a temporary DOLS order on you, but that's only done if you loose capacity.

However I would be grateful they are erring on the side of caution.

Indeed, and with cardiology you don't rush - I have a congenital defect, not a huge problem, but when I had some palpitations the cardiologist in A&E had me waiting hours, primarily because he wanted to check I was OK over a longer period.

In OPs fathers case they will have done an EKG and then be watchful waiting over a period of time, whilst dealing with other cases - at which point he will get discharged if all is well.

However, he can discharge himself at any point, all he has to do is sign a form and go home.

I do hope you’ve included this in your complaint.

Then why did it matter whether they could send a second ambulance or not?

You're worried about your dad, long waits are awful, and it's understandable that you're upset.

But you need to have the courage of your convictions here. Nobody dragged him into the ambulance.

If there was a chance he needed help, he was right to go, and the wait was not the paramedics' fault.

If you and he were somehow certain he didn't need help, you should have signed the form and accepted that he might not get another ambulance quickly. It sounds as if their day was getting busier so it was right that they warned you about this

They have the patience of saints, I spent around 8 hours from 11.00PM until 7.00 AM sat in A&E after attending with a mild heart issue, like OPs dad I had an EKG and just waited.

I can say I saw a side of life that amazed me, the poor Drs and nurses had a torrent of entitled arseholes giving them stick all night - and what did they do to deserve such treatment - try to help them!! No good deed goes unpunished as they say!

Fair enough, so why didn't he say to the hospital "I'm feeling better and going home, thanks for your help"

They can't hold you against your will, least not in those circumstances.

This, what’s the complaint? I called an ambulance and they took us to hospital the bastards?

I think OP and her parents were the entitled arseholes you saw

How many ambulances do you expect to need to waste?

Honestly OP your Dad was free to stay home and is free to leave the hospital at any point. The paramedics were just doing their job. Why feel the need to give them so much shit?

Of course they know what it is - teh OP is atupid

I commented up thread but I’m getting angered and more upset. My child had a cardiac arrest and was found to have a dangerous rare heart condition. They probably won’t live till middle age. Your bleating and complaining Op is disgusting. You would have a parallel thread running if an ambulance hadn’t attended and your dad had died.

Is that what they actually said or what you’ve taken they meant.

Were they being realistic about availability, people have to wait hours for an ambulance in some areas and maybe they were trying to tell you if your father declined, your decision to ignore their advice and not go in now, may mean your father is in a situation where there’s b it an ambulance available, what with it being a sunny bank holiday weekend and payday for many. That combo seems to make more people drink alcohol which obv makes the service even busier.

Those bastard paramedics eh? Trying to keep in safe. What a pair of arseholes

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Exactly - there is woke going on behind scenes

OP is trying to make out they didn’t even know he was there

Wtf. Get a grip