Met police are erasing the third victim of the Golders Green stabbing

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https://x.com/metpoliceuk/status/2050114417405132857?s=46

I am actually horrified. A third, Muslim, man was stabbed in the attack but he isn’t being mentioned anywhere. How is this allowed?!

I'm horrified that the police officers decided to boot him in the head after tasering him. This could have caused serious brain damage, to a man who can clearly be described as vulnerable. For the Met to insist that this was acceptable and these officers were acting as they'd been trained is horrific.

This senseless brutality has been widely criticised, because one of the known (and intended) effects of using a taser on someone is neuromuscular incapacitation, an entirely involuntary tensing of their muscles. There is no way any suspect could have dropped whatever was in his hands immediately after that, and however hard they kicked him wouldn't have changed that. Anyone who issued with a taser should have known this.

The police's own training materials (https://www.college.police.uk/app/armed-policing/conducted-energy-devices-taser) suggest that a force should consider making a referral to the IOPC after a taser has been deployed against people with mental health problems, especially in "high profile" cases like this one, and as I understand the Met have now done this.

In the meantime, the Met's PR department have swung into action against any criticisism of these officers' actions. I find it chilling that this has extended to Mark Rowley, Keir Starmer and others slagging off Zack Polanski to such an extent that he seems to have been bullied into 'apologising' for simply retweeting a post which contained such well-founded concerns.

The Met are still institutionally racist, and the statistics show that tasers are deployed disproportionately against black people (who are 8 times more likely to have a taser used against them than white people), including children as young as 10, and the elderly.

Last summer, Met officers threatened to use a taser against a 90 year old black woman with dementia, after they'd already handcuffed her and put her in a spit-hood.

Incredibly, there have even been instances of police using tasers against blind people - and then admitting that the officers involved had mistaken their white sticks for weapons.

I was responding to the comment that Jewish people have been subject to attacks at a far higher scale than any other group. That isn’t accurate.

Or doesn’t it count when it’s someone from a different group? I don’t see Starmer giving 25 million to protect against homophobia or trans people’s rights. What about protecting them from attacks.

I’m not sure where the idea that it’s a terrorist attack is coming from. He a dangerous psychopath, isn’t he, not a terrorist? He was living in accommodation for people recently released from secure mental health units. There have been many cases of victims being hugely let down by the lack of funding in mental health services, allowing their attackers to kill or maim. Calocane is another recent case. I’m not trying to say Suleiman wasn’t racist and didn’t target Jewish people specifically - he obviously did - but sick people target others for any number of twisted reasons - they’re elderly, they’re gay, they have dark skin, …There’s an awful case of a Sikh woman who was violently raped by an dangerous Islamophobe, just because he thought she was Moslem. I think more money needs to be spent on our collapsing mental health services. That would protect people going about their daily lives far more than ever more stringent security measures will.

Christ alive - people trying to deny the Holocausts continued importance! The Holocaust was an atrocity arising from anti semitism- no one is “using it” people are referencing it because they can see similar patterns re- emerging which they saw in the rise of the Nazis. So, although antisemites would like people to stop mentioning it, we won’t until every single person has learned its lessons. Right thinking people don’t “lose sympathy” over the attempted annihilation of Jews, they listen and learn lessons and are watchful of similar signs arising again to ensure it never happens again.

My question is why would people not want the Holocaust mentioned? My only guess is that they don’t want people to recognise the signs because they don’t want people to stop antisemitism. Those people are Hitler’s spawn

There has never been any attempt to deny that the man wasn't mentally ill. The police have not hidden the fact that there was an earlier domestic attack. The press have reported all this. None of it changes the fact that the man went out and tried to kill two Jewish people in a targeted attack. OP, are you suggesting there isn't a vast amount of antisemitism around at the moment? You seem to be adding to it on this thread.

He still had a knife when they kicked him therefore he’s still a threat. There’s already a long thread on this but until that knife is relinquished and he’s fully secured he is still very much a threat, mentally ill or not.

It came from the police who decide on such matters - I mean honestly, just a little bit of research!

Again. No. They. AREN'T.

This attacker is clearly very mentally unstable and an investigation is needed as to why the system enabled him to be at large on the streets at all. If he was still in the psychiatric institution, none of this would have happened.

Aside from these attacks, there is a wider issue in the U.K. that some knife attacks / murders are headlines whereas others are not reported at all. For instance, a few years ago, outside a 6th form college not far away from me, a student was fatally stabbed in the entrance of the college in broad daylight by other students - witnessed by local school children on a playing field opposite. The boy was Afghan, an asylum seeker, aged 17. The attackers were also a similar age. Didn't even make local news. I couldn't understand it then, and still can't.

That data, which includes "non crime hate incidents", which are now being abandoned, shows that Jews are disproportionately more likely to be victims of "hate crimes" as there are many more Muslims than Jews in the UK.

I don't know if that's the point you're trying to make?

If not, anyone can report anything that gets recorded as a hate crime, they're totally meaningless. I know of a case when a woman reported her neighbour because he had a union jack on his car (which he didn't even put there) and it was recorded as a racial hate crime. A cross-dressing bloke reported a woman at a bus shelter for hate because she gave him a funny look when she saw him in the toilet - that was recorded as a transphobic hate crime

Again that you have to look at it per capita. I’d be curious to know more about the numbers mentioned and exactly what they entailed but that’s probably worthy of another thread.

Just to point out that 6.5% of the population of England and Wales identify as Muslim and 0.5% as Jewish. So thirteen times as many Muslims as Jews (2021 census). 15% of Muslims live in London and more than half of the Jews. Which is of course not to say that hate crimes against any minority group is anything other than abhorrent.

I feel it has been irresponsible of the media and the police. I saw the former poet laureate, Michale Rosen (Jewish, lives near Golders Green), condemn both for allowing people to jump to this being a racially/ethnically motivated incident (and thus a terror one) when the data coming through shows this was a mentally ill man and the conversation we need to be having is why the NHS and SS have become so poor in recent years. There has been a plethora of attacks by black mentally ill men which suggests to me that, just as black women’s issues in child birth for example are not understood/supported, neither are those of black men.

It is unforgiveable that the first victim of the three has not been acknowledged - though I appreciate at the time of the Golders Green escalation, the Met had not joined the dots and the media outlets did not have all the facts, but this incident has been hijacked and politicised in a way that will not serve the wider members of the London community.

It is absolutely the case that the threat to Jewish communities need to be elevated and the govt and police need to up their game considerably, but this incident should have triggered an alert on the appaling lack of funding ad resources available in MH services, the lack of oversight and supervision seriously ill patients have, the lack of power those involved in their house and monitoring have to request support and to section.

I hate the fucking media. Everything is distorted to fulfil the cause de jour and factual, socially responsible reporting and discussion is now dead.

Yes, that’s how the police determine whether a radicalised man travelling to a Jewish area in order to stab Jews constitutes a terror attack - his travel time.

I suspect the real issue is that some people are utterly enraged at the idea of Jews receiving any sympathy at all, even when they’re being attacked in their own country. Hence the furious tap dancing to try and convince people that antisemitic attacks aren't happening. You’ll be saying it was just the “perception” of being stabbed next.

And how would the officers who bravely intercepted a man who was dressed in a way which could have been hiding a suicide vest who was refusing to give up his knife and therefore still posed an immediate risk to the public to assessed his mental competency?

Honestly useful idiots are a danger to society

Id suggest heading to the thread which has discussed this in detail and don’t let your anti police stance cloud your judgement further

Do you not understand what ‘per head of population’ means??? The Jewish population in the U.K. is approx 287,360 in the last census. 3,700 hate crimes represents 1 hate crime for every 78 Jews. The same census shows there are 3.9 million Muslims. 4,500 hate crimes represents 1 hate crime for every 867 Muslims.

Edited to say that was in relation to the poster questioning the rate of anti-Semitic hate crimes compared to other hate crimes. Post had lost the quote function.

It is accurate. Per head of population. There are 4m Muslims and fewer than 300,000 Jews in UK.

@Longtimelurkerfinallyposts ,not this again! He had a knife, the police officers thought he might have had a suicide belt. Tasering a person does not incapacitate them for long. He could have activated a suicide belt and killed them all, for all they knew. He could still have stabbed one of them. There are times when desparate measures are called for and this is one of them.

Just to add, the first attack took place in Great Dover Street where KCL have a HUGE student halls. It’s residential area with a pub etc. Thank God most of the students are at home now prepping for exams, doing assignments and it was a ghost town because this mentally ill man could have cause absolute carnage otherwise.

That is the point I was trying to make. If you want someone to drop a knife, electrocuting them with a taser is one way of guaranteeing that they won't be physically able to drop it, until they can move their muscles again!
Kicking them in the head is pointless - it won't make their muscles relax any quicker - and dangerous. The police should have known this.

The courts have issued an order restricting reporting of certain details about the first attack to protect other residents in the house. Not sinister just protection for the innocent.

The video footage also shows (from their clothing) that both the victims in Golders Green were clearly Jewish. Are people really suggesting that this was just coincidental?

I'd like to ask what people think the police should have done to detain him? Perhaps he should have been shot?

What picture does it paint? It sounds to me as though you are suggesting that the Jewish men weren’t victims of antisemitism, but were just random attacks by an angry bloke with mental health issues. Is that what you’re saying?

The pulse isn’t constant. There are gaps in between shocks during which he had time to give it over or roll over away from it so they could take it but he didn’t.