To wish parents appreciated their kids’ education more?

[MayasJamas]

Another meet up with middle class parents last night, another inevitable diatribe about how the education system teaches kids nothing but how to pass exams.

As a teacher, I bite my tongue. I truly wish parents could see what young people are actually learning. How the world works (scientifically, sociological, ethically). How to question what they read and hear. How to draw, write, speak, listen. How in English, even in GCSE lessons, we regularly discuss the deepest of human issues: war, love, injustice, misogyny, kindness, religion, prejudice.

I completely agree that the GCSE system is flawed and too much pressure. I have a Y11 child myself and it is too much. But it seems to be a middle class hobby to slag off everything that schools and teachers are trying to do. It’s ironic because, generally speaking, these privileged children are the ones who will benefit most from the education system their parents deride. They’ll go on to study subjects they enjoy at A Level and uni, to have rewarding careers in whatever field they choose. They literally couldn’t do that without education. Generally speaking, teachers and schools are also trying to make those opportinities available to all. I teach underprivileged kids who want to become brain surgeons and journalists and politicians. Education will help them to do that.

But no. ‘It’s just a memory test’. ‘They’re not learning anything relevant to real life’. I don’t want a medal btw, but AIBU to think parents are quick to shit on the system that is actually (on the whole) enriching the lives of their kids?

But surely, tests and marked homework is pretty usual/standard in classrooms anyway? We just need to find ways to formalise and standardise it so that what is already done can be used for formal/external results/qualifications. Instead of individual teachers making up their own progress tests throughout the year, why isn't there a standard set of tests they can choose from a central portal/depository? Same with worksheets for homework etc.

After all, in, further/higher education, final exam marks aren't based solely on end of course exams, there's yearly exams and also coursework, modules, etc., so the final mark is based on various different forms of work, a mixture of exams, assignments, essays, etc., done over a 2/3 year period.

To reduce the stresses, anxiety, etc., surely it's better to scrap the "end of year" exams if anything and just use all the different ways of testing progress during the year/2 year period. I think it's the "all or nothing" approach of final exams counting for everything that puts a hell of a lot more stress on children and massively benefits the children who are good at "last minute cramming".

I think people should knuckle down, study, do their work and stop bloody complaining about "oh the exams cause me so much anxiety".

All my DC have got A*s/9s at GCSE and then As and Astars at A Level

In Finland there's a good market for textbooks for schools and tests to go with them can be bought too so schools usually choose a textbook series for each subject and purchase them and I expect the tests too though some teachers might make their tests or adjust the ones that come with the books (I know DS's teacher has adjusted some tests for him because the normal ones were too easy) so assessment has a degree of standardisation but also teachers are trusted here to do things differently if they want but easy enough to make it standardised for all.

It not my personal opinion - but I strongly suspect that is what will happen.

Very difficult for teachers as well when most class groups are very heterogeneous in their ability. Teaching would need to be tailored to continuous assessments and this would not suit all children and may result in a very narrow curriculum focussed on the continuous assessments.

I still write lots of notes by hand at work for this reason - writing by hand is a skill which we must retain and ensure children gain it despite the increase in computers

II can’t tell whether this is serious or not but there is definitely an element of “pathologising” any slight anxiety or stress rather understanding it as being normal and how it manage it. Avoidance cause long terms problems and eventually anxiety and stress.

Count yourself lucky your school didn't insist on "italic" as being the only acceptable form of handwriting! We had a headteacher at my primary who invoked that. Not just that, but ink pens too! He gave special handwriting lessons to force us all to write with italic ink pens in the exact format he specified. No possible chance of any individualism.

When we got to secondary school, a couple of the teachers could instantly tell which of the class had been to that particular school just by the handwriting. One said he'd seen the handwriting of dozens of pupils completely ruined by that school/headteacher!

Similar with our DS when he started University. Everything was on screens, including lecture notes, assignments, progress tests, text books, etc - basically a paperless university! He tried for the first year to adopt to it, but he hated the online "tagging" and "flags" he had to do to make his own annotations and notes during the lectures and afterwards when reading the text book chapters etc. He said he basically forgot it all straight away and had to re-do it all when it came to the end of module/year tests and assignments.

For year 2, I suggested he printed out the notes/assignments etc., and also got paper copies of the text books. The printing charge for the Uni printers was very expensive when lecture notes for each module ran to a few hundred pages, so he emailed it me and I printed it all on my laser printer. I also helped him find second hand books to buy from the recommended reading list for anything where he couldn't borrow a paper version from the Uni library.

He absolutely loved it. He'd take his paper copy of the lecture notes to all lectures and make his own annotations/highlighting and other notes on the paper itself, and would use paper flags to highlight important pages etc. He did the same with the second hand books we'd bought - lots of paper flags, sticky notes and hand-written notes.

Yes, soon had a couple of shelves full of lever arch files of lecture notes and another shelf of books, but he said he remembered it far better having written notes during lectures etc., and it was easier to revise for the end of term/year tests/exams.

People study in different ways. I think it's a very dangerous track to go down to treat all students as some identical "blob" and stifle their personal preferences etc. They need to be encouraged/nurtured to discover what works best for them and be allowed to choose their preferred method of learning/revision etc.

You have to work in education in a developing country to really value the quality of what we have in the UK. Our public education system is a massive reason why people want to come here. It has been underfunded and under-appreciated by the British for years. Given the impact of education on society it should get way more investment than it does.

The system doesn’t serve everybody - but this is largely due to an over focus on the economic goals of education - the same way as most public systems are going in the developed world. I think teachers in the UK rightly have a sense that this isn’t how it should be - but they are constrained by the curriculum and overwhelmed by all the other social roles they have to perform.

I loved handwriting lessons at primary school! The excitement of each new letter… and finally being told you can bring in an ink pen . Of course a dreadful mess was made - inky hands, blots, squirts - but it was a nice rite of passage.

Look how beautiful even the most ordinary person’s handwriting was a century or more ago. I think we should resurrect the art!

My youngest dd went to a good comp. I think that by the end of year 11 she had had a good broad education, despite the many weeks lost to covid. Things like coercive control, money, and a whole range of things.

What about coercive control?

Yes, but year after year of being forced into using a specific/particular/fixed method of writing does no-one any favours.

I'm all for encouraging neat handwriting, but any form of handwriting can be "neat" enough to be easily read. It doesn't have to be the specified preference of a particular teacher/head-teacher.

As for days gone by, yes, those who could write, would usually write very neatly and artistically, but you have to remember, lots of others couldn't write at all, other than marks such as an "x", so it certainly wasn't universal that everyone wrote so beautifully. Of course, only those who had wonderful handwriting were given jobs etc involving hand-writing so it's a bit of a self-selecting group when it comes to looking at historical writing. No one would have given a ledger-keeping job to a clerk who couldn't write!

If the parents are slightly older (Gen x age) then they may genuinely be unaware of this as schools weren’t like this back in the day.

I was a very bright child but because of my experience at school, I in no way fulfilled my potential.

Yes - but all got the chance to learn, even if things didn’t pan out too well. I was thinking about the good old recorder earlier today. At school (very mixed village primary) we all had to make a stab at it. Ok, some were not destined to be in the national youth orchestra, but everyone had the opportunity to start off on a basic instrument and learn the treble clef.

From my observations of my dcs’ schooling, everything is much more “opt in” - requiring parental motivation/signing up etc - rather than getting every single pupil to just have a bash at something they wouldn’t opt for given the choice.

For what it's worth I agree with you. I must admit I don't have kids myself but I hugely valued my education and if I had kids would want the same for them, whatever job they go into. I come from a family where everyone left school at 16, but I went to a good state school, then to university, and now have an interesting career that would have been impossible without a degree, although it's not specifically related to what I studied. I also speak a foreign language and had the chance to live abroad for a year, all thanks to starting that language at GCSE at school. GCSEs and A-Levels gave me a broad general knowledge and helped me to be a critical and literate learner - sometimes I think the most valuable thing an education gives you is the ability to distinguish between what you do and don't know. There's plenty I don't know, of course, but I don't think I'm one of those people who spouts off about things I know nothing about.

I have never, ever taken my education for granted and I think good teachers do a hugely important job :)

Surely this is down to individual schools and the teachers within those schools? And sometimes even individual subjects?

You could be the best teacher to have ever taught at the best school to have ever existed but

1. You are not responsible for the curriculum. As you said yourself, the GCSE system needs to be improved. The SATs system is also flawed.
2. Not all schools are equal. Private schools can very much "teach to the test" as they are often concerned with league tables and whatnot. I've visited a range of schools and some put incredible pressure on their students.

I am thankful that our education system exists and is free for all children. I'm grateful for the incredible teachers that do exist. That doesn't mean I have to accept it's flaws.

That’s where it’s improved, clearly. We had to do what they told us to do and actually parents weren’t particularly involved.

Although they did inadvertently teach skills like lying for self preservation and how to deal with being bullied etc without daring to involve parents or teachers!

I hated them after a while because legible and quick wasn’t good enough. It HAD to be pretty AND neat! Even more frustrating when I had points taken out from a test because it wasn’t neat and pretty enough. As a young child it was demoralising, shaming and hurtful. As a teen it was enraging. I instantly lost respect for any teacher that played that game. Funnily enough my handwriting didn’t actually impact my results in exams that did matter.

But this purely tests memory. Not the essay. The essay could have been handed it to be marked.

The Dyslexic children who cannot memorise, but can produce amazing work, are heavily penalised with this "memorisation of essay" exams types.

In Scotalnd this applies to all social subjects.

Many do well in maths and physics type exams where you need to understand rather than just remember.

This is why I always advocate for some kind of "modular" system for secondary school, akin to university degree modules, maybe working towards a "school leavers certificate" rather than separate GCSE/A levels in separate subjects.

A system where a whole range of work can be accumulated to produce a final "mark", where kids who do better at writing essays can "weight" their modules towards that, or where kids who are more logical can "weight" their modules accordingly, etc.

Start with basic modules, a term each, being things like "Basic French", "Numeracy", "Literacy", "Basic science", "basic art", "Basic Music", etc in first year, all compulsory, as "taster" sessions to see what the pupils enjoy, what they're good at, what they want to pursue, etc., and then in subsequent terms, right through the 5/7 years, they can build up higher and higher levels in their preferred subjects, along with trying out others along the way, such as maybe non mainstream subjects such as photography or car maintenance, etc etc. But instead of spending only an hour a week on, say, Art in the first term, reduce the number of subjects and spend longer on them, so maybe if you do Art in the first term, it's say, 3/4 hours per week, but instead of say 10 subjects, you only do 3/4 "modules", then swap over for term 2 and again for term 3. Concentrate more on fewer subjects at a time. As you go through the subjects getting harder, you get more "points" available for the progress tests, written work, class participation, etc etc. Literacy and numeracy compulsory throughout, every term, but again, break it down into different modules, smaller chunks, more choices, etc so if someone with poor numeracy skills struggles year after year, they stay at a relatively low level, but doing different modules, and eventually may get enough knowledge/experience to score some points and actually be functionally numerate for their later life.

Upon leaving, you add all the marks gained over the years, and that gives you, your "leaving grade".

I said earlier in the thread that my son got an A for his higher English without sitting it so there must be a level of continuing assessment in Scotland.

How would that be objectively be moderated though? How do you know schools are marking in the same way?

Some similarities to the Finnish high school system. Its modular, students choose their own study plans so choose which modules they want to study and when (they don't study within their own year group, its mixed and its up to the student how long they take so can do more modules at once and finish in two years or go for the normal speed and finish in three or spread them out more and finish in four years) but within constraints (some modules are obligatory, others are optional, and they have to do enough modules to get 150 credits, each module is worth 1-3 credits) and assessment is done at the end of each module and there are optional diplomas they can do which are thematic studies. But there is still the matriculation exams at the end, but I don't think they're technically required, only if you want to go to university.

Moderation through exam boards as is the case now with subjects that still have coursework. We should not put 'how do we assess it' above 'how can kids best learn and thrive'. Even allowing modular exams into the current GCSE structure would be an improvement and take the weight off a 6 week period in y11 when some are still 15 and some almost 17.