To wish parents appreciated their kids’ education more?

[MayasJamas]

Another meet up with middle class parents last night, another inevitable diatribe about how the education system teaches kids nothing but how to pass exams.

As a teacher, I bite my tongue. I truly wish parents could see what young people are actually learning. How the world works (scientifically, sociological, ethically). How to question what they read and hear. How to draw, write, speak, listen. How in English, even in GCSE lessons, we regularly discuss the deepest of human issues: war, love, injustice, misogyny, kindness, religion, prejudice.

I completely agree that the GCSE system is flawed and too much pressure. I have a Y11 child myself and it is too much. But it seems to be a middle class hobby to slag off everything that schools and teachers are trying to do. It’s ironic because, generally speaking, these privileged children are the ones who will benefit most from the education system their parents deride. They’ll go on to study subjects they enjoy at A Level and uni, to have rewarding careers in whatever field they choose. They literally couldn’t do that without education. Generally speaking, teachers and schools are also trying to make those opportinities available to all. I teach underprivileged kids who want to become brain surgeons and journalists and politicians. Education will help them to do that.

But no. ‘It’s just a memory test’. ‘They’re not learning anything relevant to real life’. I don’t want a medal btw, but AIBU to think parents are quick to shit on the system that is actually (on the whole) enriching the lives of their kids?

Oh come on - have you been a parent of a teenager?! I have NT and generally very well behaved and academically able teens and we still get the barest bones of information from them. Some days are more forthcoming than others.

End of school day:
-me/DH: how was school?
-DC: fine
-me/DH: what topics are you doing in x-subject
-DC: can’t remember

Parents evening often goes likes this:
-teacher: your DC really seems to be enjoying the current topic, have they talked to about it at home and told you about the poster they did on erosion?
-me/DH: awkward moment, erm yes they seem to be enjoying it (not a clue).

Nefode anyone says it, of course, if parents evening/reports were not good then we could be more on it but otherwise we leave them to take responsibility for their work.

ETA: not much book work and that is often done at school. Rest is on laptops, which is a pain for oversight as a parent.

I have two teenage dc. A pp asked what I was doing to tell parents what their children are learning, and I was explaining that is quite difficult at high school. I don’t think parents would want (or read) multiple emails from different subjects explaining the topics of study. So I guess it’s on parents to find out, or if they don’t want to do that, not make sweeping statements about how their kids aren’t learning anything meaningful. Not saying you did that, btw; I’m saying this wrt my OP which is about parents making sweeping comments about how shit and lacking in meaningful substance education is, and me wishing they would appreciate the amazing things their kids are actually learning.

I appreciate education, but I think the British education system sucks - I have experienced several others. Those are not mutually exclusive positions. I think your position of "education is great", while true, does not mean they have to be grateful for or approve of the particular education their child is getting. It is possible to have an education that is suboptimal.

They sound very rude, however. Why would they expect to be handed a tailored education in an underfunded and badly organised system? Why do they send their kid if it's so awful? Presumably for reasons connected to their finances and convenience, since you say they are well-resourced. The law says parents must ensure their child has a fitting education, not that it must happen in a school, and while that tends to mean that if parents send their kids to the local school and ensure good attendance they are seen as off the hook, in fact the responsibility is not the school's but the parent's. If they think the education is terrible they should move schools or take him out and do it themselves.

"I get your viewpoint - but seriously, people do not become scientists or doctors or lawyers or architects (typically considered ‘good jobs’) whether they attend school or not. That is evidently not the case."

Well - you're wrong. My home educated niece and nephew are a lawyer and an engineer and very successful, for instance. Education does not equal school and school does not always equal education.

I’d guess it helps with fine motor skills, as well as identifying those with problems. it teaches them to read what came before them, and means they can write in a readable manner, quickly, when their screens are not available. And not everyone can afford to have a screen.

Also, the idea that people can type now doesn’t work in the age of touch screens. DH is a lecturer and has started telling prospective students to learn to actually touch type before they arrive - because the students are so slow at typing that they can only manage 2000 words in a three hour exam now. They should be doing 4-5000 but there pecking away at the keyboards with two fingers!

I suspect many front line A&E nurses are foreign

Parents can be absolute arseholes, it's one of the main reasons I left teaching!

I think that if those parents are going to use the state provided system (which necessarily has to be ‘one size fits the majority’ rather than tailored) they need to accept that it’s not going to be perfect for anyone but the small minority.

I think that the UK system is poorly funded and the teachers do their best with what they have, in spite of the poor attitudes to learning that seem endemic in our population, and the inability of many parents to control their own children. I think that the state designed system is a bit straitjacketed, and pushes kids to amassing knowledge rather than practical skills, which doesn’t work for everyone. But I think that it’s a decent system in the grand scheme of things.

I’ve also paid attention to what happens in school - the rhythm of the days and months - and think that schools are the last bastion of tradition. If they didn’t keep going with festivals and celebrations- the country would never do anything collectively (except whine).

Changes could be made to improve the range of options available, to create schools matching different cohorts, and to broaden skills - but the people here don’t want that. If they didn’t keep, they’d push for it and be happy to pay the cost.

ETA: not much book work and that is often done at school. Rest is on laptops, which is a pain for oversight as a parent.

Yeah- I agree with this. I know it's just the way things are but all their notes and work seems to be so scattered across multiple mediums. I find it really hard to know if they've done what they're supposed to have done or to what standard, and with revision I don't even know where to start (other than buy the revision books for the exam board and use that instead). I can't even figure out what the topics are.

As a parent I have no idea what school are doing. Everything is online or by app at home and I get no feedback on progression, which should be easier than ever in a digital world. It’s the school system that’s at fault though. When I meet her individual teachers they are engaged, know her, and seem very competent. Except one, but she’s not doing that GCSE so that’s fine.

I must say though I find the app based homework pointless. It’s completely discourages my daughter, especially in English, and she’s been put off reading as she’s quizzing for comprehension like a primary school kid.

YANBU.

I believe a lot of the shit-talking about schools/teachers is feeding into the EBSA crisis. When a child hears, from a young age, adults chatting about ‘my child’s too young to start school/they’re summer born/formal schooling shouldn’t start until later/children in other countries don’t read until they’re 7’, children internalise these messages. We have some pupils not attending whose relatives have been harping on - within earshot - about the advantages of going to private rather than state school for the last decade, for example.

Anyway, parents simply don’t know what’s happening in school because they’re not actually there, and children will only reveal the most exciting/worst bits of their day. It’s nice when they recognise that their children are happy and learning; it’s very difficult when they home in on the stuff that isn’t working so well and start to spiral (along with their children).

I keep things positive about school with my two, and listen to them but put the tricky bits into perspective; life is about having to work with difficult situations/people/less than adequate resources etc.

In theory I agree with you but this doesn’t seem to be the day to day reality in many schools.
I have children with SN, all but 1 school they attended actively obstructed the support they needed to access education and we were forced to home educate 3 of my dc.

In 20 years of having dc in school (we tried so hard to make it work!) we saw changes that meant schools became totally inflexible to the point of hostility to many children, meaning more and more couldn’t attend, more hostility towards parents of SN children, and rising rates of SN which I’m convinced have come about because of the education structure becoming more rigid and not conducive to learning for more and more children.

As it is my dc are thriving because we removed them from the system which was actively harming them, like so many.

I totally agree. I think the system in England is quite good, and I think without primary SATs, times tables checks and phonics, lots of primary schools would seriously drop the ball. There would be loads of misguided “they are doing the best they can” but actually a bit of accountability is a good thing.

I also think it’s a bit of a luxury belief to slag off school (cf the Michaela school). And having relatives in both the NI and Scottish systems, there is no way I would swap.

They think this because this is what we are told about about the British education system. It’s the narrative that the media puts out. You bit your tongue, why? It you want the narrative to change then people need to speak out and explain how that’s not the case and what is actually being taught: You are saying that you are teaching children to do this but then why not do it yourself.

People don't tend to appreciate things that are compulsory and forced upon them with threat of legal action. I'm as sad to hear my happy 7 year old after a lovely weekend wake up and cry and beg me to not make her go to school as I am from my teens who are resigned to it but are still sat panicking about Monday morning. My teen DD spent the whole weekend panicking because she couldn't remember if she had a maths test today or not. Business suits are compulsory even in summer for my teens. These 'opportunities' your going on about training them up for are just jobs, you're just talking about forced training the fit the mould for work, not even all types of work but specific office types of work, but people are more than that, my children have more potential to enjoy their life and raise a family but I can see their enthusiasm for life being squeezed out of the under the pressure. I want more for them than work and I would not send them to school if I had a choice, and I do resent the system that means that I don't.

Gcse should be dropped
We do appreciate teachers but they spent half if last year here in nz on strike...bugger the working parents.
No it was a long winded pain in the ass... then 6mths to be told our children are falling behind

You choose to teach you will find not everyone believes in education the way it is done..exams load a of shite.
Pressure and the bloody pressure of absent genuine reasons has arrived here as well...utter shit.
Mine was compared to ours for lack of writing...oh ok and shown others work
...oh its not obvious they have dyslexia
I was quite surprised from a teacher who has been teaching for some time...nor caught up earlier.
Dont get me started about the maladjusted kids in the school as well.. finally this year my childs not being physically abused...very hard to have respect for any teacher with that shit going.
Ever thought about why...
Bunch whingers.

To pick up your last point the adoption of apprenticeships in the legal sector is not due to “dissatisfaction” with what school/uni provides, it is an aim to open up access to the profession to those that can’t go the traditional route for some reason. Accountants have always done “on the job” learning, starting at 18 (some as young as 16) and doing exams whilst working.

I agree @MayasJamas , if they think it is so bad why don’t they home educate? They just want to bitch about something and do others down to make themselves feel superior.

They’re not ‘doing others down’ though. It’s the system they’re criticising, not the individuals who work within it.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I’ve ever read on here.

I think when you start talking about education as preparation for getting into uni so you can get a good job, you’ve rather shown your hand, and demonstrated just how much of a sausage machine it really has become.

I appreciate teachers but the education system is incredibly flawed, especially for those with SEND and/or those who aren't academic.

My son isn't academic and I've slowly watched school (the system NOT the teachers) suck out a love of learning for him. He dreads going to school now in Year 5 which I find to be incredibly sad.

Totally agree with you OP.
There is so much negativity about our education system and yet globally we come third after Denmark and Sweden:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/education-rankings-by-country

I home educate my children and while I agree with a huge amount that you have said, I think a lot of schools these days are not good places compared to say 30 years ago when I was at school... uniform rules that are draconian, isolation for forgetting something once, it seems that what we are teaching our kids is how to think alike rather than have their own opinions and flaws.
Education is vital, but the level of follow the rules these days doesn't seem to be working... schools are getting stricter without any real fear of the punish,ents and kids are getting more unruly.

My DGCs all seem to thoroughly enjoy school -more than I ever did

What do you think the solution is? The education system suits the very academic. I thrived doing exams and miss doing them. Never got stressed, enjoyed the vigour and challenge . I appreciate it isn’t everyone but whenever I see people talk about changing the system it is always to the disadvantage of those who do like exams. More coursework? (I absolutely hated it- don’t have the patience) or more continuous assessment (how do you standardise?). There isn't a system that works for all. The USA has a more flexible system but then their standards are lower and the more able are creamed off into different classes and accelerated into different years.

we could definitely move away from a comprehensive system back to grammar and other types of schools but then people will be up in arms about it. But clearly a system can’t work for everyone and it is important we support the most academic as well as everyone else.