parkrun defending their position

[Funtime2]

I used to be a parkrunner and do not understand how parkrun can defend their position of allowing trans identfying males into the female category.

I read that 280 published race winners in the female category are actually men identifying as women. How is this fair to women? Some women don’t care about this but some women do, just as some men take it as a race and care about the rankings and some men don’t

The other option of course is they could stop the timing, stop recording winners and records?

AIBU to genuinely not understand why parkrun claim not to be a race when they time the runners, publish times by category, rank times and runners, and have record holders by category.

It really is. Women wouldn’t have a problem if nen were prepared to be honest. But they’re not. Men are the issue.

And this is the kind of post that reassures me I'm on the right side.

The fury, the aggression, the abuse. And the weird accusations of ulterior motives and extreme prejudice.

It's disproportionate and unpleasant. And it stands out as such.

I made arguments, including acknowledging considerations from the other side and expressing concern for trans runners.

Black Cat's made suggestions, including terse explanations of why these are, in the context, arguably more logical and fair than what's currently happening.

And you... post the above.

Keep 'em coming, people. It only helps convince the fence-sitters.

What lie? I, and all the rest of us, are not the one lying.

Telling us all that PRs are used to get entries into Marathons and other elite competitions, you haven't a clue what you re talking about.

Do you even do PRs yourself?

So much of the fun of parkrun is tied up in the official records. Where you have been (from example at a parkruns starting with all the letters of the alphabet), which finish times you have (I am thinking of stopwatch bingo here where you want to collect all the possibilities in seconds from 0 to 59). Whether you have done 5 runs at each of 5 different parties for a P index of 5 etc.

It is not about laziness of not recording our own times - we all do that anyway as well. It is about having that official record. It’s fun. Let’s not take that away how ever it is resolved.

Read the thread. Those in the know have said the same thing. You don't know what you're talking about. One person on X, a known marathon runner, said those were chosen from their Parkrun times. So you really don't know what you are talking about.

When that 'official record' is false and unfair, it is not fun for women.

So let’s do away with the whole thing?

Thats what some people seem to be suggesting on this thread.

Your example is not quite right, currently it’s like roads not having speed limits at all. We are asking for there to be speed limits. Most people stick to speed limits, if there were no limits most people would speed.

Also your DD doesn’t speak for all girls.

This is the sensible answer but when have our trans friends been sensible. They will want the cake with a cherry on top as usual which is how we have ended up here (again as usual). Men don't like to be told!

Maybe parkrun could just change their category to women. You know the ones that don’t matter as much.

Yes, that is the way to go. Have no timings or rankings, and no categories. Just a fun run, and time themselves.

It's really the only fair way to go. Unfortunately males have ruined it all. As usual.

Women did, though. Tell the suffragettes that they were unwomanly, absurd, disrupting the natural order of things etc.

But we look back and the dynamics are very much clearer now.

I am sure Park run would collapse if that was the case. I would hazard there are more people who do it for the timings than just a fun run in a park. Park run relies on numbers to keep it going so I expect that is what they decided to keep the timings

QED - they were also slandered and libelled and attributed absurd ulterior motives in their simple desire for full, meaningful equality without compromise.

I am not disagreeing with you. I am actually disagreeing with @ThatBlackCat who just came along and illustrated that people are suggesting exactly what I really hope will not happen.

Excuse me! I did, when I went. Last and proud. 😅

Do you think that in the future world transwomen will be fully included in women’s sports categories etc? Do you think that will be a good world in which our daughters will be happy to live? Do you think their lives will feel fair to them?

Here's an example from Ireland.

https://blog.parkrun.com/ie/2019/04/23/get-a-qualifying-time-for-the-vhi-womens-mini-marathon-at-parkrun/

I think @ThatBlackCat is saying to do away with records because parkrun refuse to make them fair not because she thinks they shouldn’t exist.

Sorry @ThatBlackCat if i got that wrong.

I used to love parkrun but if they can’t make it equally fair for men and women then the only answer will be to do away with records.

It is parkrun that’s ruining the fun no one else

I don't think that's the only way. There has been talk in various FB groups of them hiding the results tables. That would deal with this, deal with the perceived GDPR issue and potentially allow parkrun to come back in France..

I think they will still time it but you will just get an email with your time and age grading. The age grading can still be wrong if you've put the wrong age or sex in, but the time will be correct and there will be no comparisons.

They'd lose some of the faster runners who like to compare themselves but potentially gain others.

But how would an age grading help women? How demotivating when I am age graded against men.

No No No to this.

It isn't a lie, it WAS set up as a time trial. It was about 10 years ago or thereabouts that they realised they could get a lot of money if they made their purpose public health, so they gradually removed the trappings of it being a race /being a runners' event such as talking about events not runs and event director not run director (and also things like the points tables where you got points every week depending on where you came and then there were prizes each year for the people who had the most points - it did reward speed but it rewarded loyalty to a particular parkrun more).

And some running clubs use parkruns for events in their racing calendars.

No, my point's the exact opposite! I'm pro-single-sex, with a lot of posts earlier exploring this in loads of detail. All ignored in favour of the whack-a-mole (excellent analogy!) chorus of "It's not a competition cos they say it isn't. Do some research (which seems to equate to, "read what they say"?).

Oh boy, have I done "some research". But it's gone well beyond Parkrun's cynical public statements. And it's why I really do see this both as fundamentally unfair, disingenuously hypocritical, and as a huge, representative and potentially influential issue for women's rights.

Encouragingly, a majority of voters on this thread seem to agree.

Yes, that's what I mean. It would be different if they were a fair and accurate record.