English people are second class citizens

[NotAnotherScarf]

Aibu To be annoyed about so many Facebook posts about celebrating st George's day being racist. No one post this for st Patrick's day, st Andrew's or st David's.... Hogmanay and burns night have parties

By celebrating being English, passing democracy to the world, Shakespeare, Agatha Christie, TV, the jet engine, the internet... railways, the industrial revolution, beer, the Beatles... All should be celebrated.

Yes we did some shite things...but white slavery (20+ million), the Holocaust, programs in Eastern Europe. King Leopold of Belgium hunting African people. The depopulation of parts of the USSR, the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia.....all things that in the last 125 years England has nothing to do with...yet people like to think that we who celebrate our Englishness are scum.

Err … of course i don’t have proof and I don’t remotely believe it. Even the evidence of the individual existence of the apostles is fairly poorly evidenced. The point is it is a legend that was widely believed for centuries and is fundamental to Scotlands story and that is why St Andrew was chosen as the patron saint. Whereas St George never had any connection to England, apocryphal or not, and was just chosen because he was trendy with crusaders, which is why he was the patron saint of so many countries.

Actually just think many British people don’t care about it. I grew up in a very white working class council estate and I don’t remember a single person celebrating it. I’ve never heard of anyone making a deal out of it.

We weren’t perfect during the Holocaust btw. We refused to let Jewish refugees fleeing Romania into Palestine. Look up the Struma Voyage.

We didn't but American, India, Australia just to name a few countries that are democratic because of the English...so well over a billion people get to vote because of England

Bollocks. America and India got to vote because they threw off English rule.

The dictionary definition it is what one "nation" does to another. To you, the Irish and the English may have been very distinct: to the indigenous they were all newcomers under the aegis of a foreign government.
Your claims that I've minimised anything make no sense and given that you've been unable to refute any history I've pointed at it's not for you to say that I'm unaware of basic facts.

I'm going to stick with the dictionary definition thanks.

The Irish were the indigenous. They were shot, starved, dispossessed of land, had laws enacted against them simply because of who they were. Do you think Irish people spoke English from the beginning of time? You're speaking as if Ireland voluntarily merged with Britain. You are ignoring history.

You said that Ireland colonised all the countries that the UK did. That can absolutely be refuted because Ireland as a state simply did not exist. It's the third time I've said it, you don't seem to want to hear it.

You forgot the Empire, which was a central shaping force to the Englishness you describe - and, ironically, intrinsically linked to the high levels of immigration you so despise.

I think I can use Scotch. Everyone seems to know what I mean. Why are they so protective over people giving their national identity respect? The English seem to not worry so much??

(Which is of course the point Im making, having many Scotch folk in my family and being fully attuned to what to bait them with....)

So you are deliberately using an incorrect term to describe nationality in order to bait people on this thread?

Either you are fibbing to cover your ignorance in thinking "Scotch" is correct or you enjoy being unpleasant.

Yes of course I am deliberately using an incorrect term. I told you this yesterday but you said you didn't believe me.

The point I'm making is that lots of people on this thread or generally (particularly the Scotch folk) are pretty rude about the English and their national identity. And yet the Scotch get cross if I use a term they don't like to describe them. A fairly inoffensive term lets be honest.

It's not that serious. Its an odd thread on MN and as I said I am only teasing. I thought we were allowed to still tease each other even in 2026? I hope I haven't made any Scotch people cry. I'm sure they can take it. My Scotch family members are pretty tough. They dish it out enough.

This is all a very interesting insight into your character, pine.

Thanks. I am a very interesting person.

Are you American yourself by the way? You don't seem to understand the concept of teasing?

Ah, the "teasing" defence. The likes of Farage use that, so you are in great company. Anyway. Have fun with your "teasing".

Oh come on chicky...don't take yourself so seriously. Its mumsnet and we are all one nationality really. And Im not exactly calling the Scotch "c**ts"???!! I'm just referring to them as Scotch. They can take it. They're tough.

And why are you mentioning Farage? Is he Scotch too? I thought he was from Kent?

It's only "banter" and "teasing" if the other person is having a laugh and a joke back with you.
If you keep wanging on and keeping it going when you know it's not landing well, it just makes you a dick.
As for Scotch - who even says that?! 😁 It makes me think of the eggs.
You're just coming across as a berk.

🥱

Why would you get something deliberately wrong when you could get it right? It's a matter of basic respect, the term is Scottish. Also why would you want to bait Scottish people, while banging on about the alleged joys of being English and how practically no one wants to celebrate them?

Personally I think it's nationality envy. In Scotland the thing that unites us all is our being Scottish. We have also forged a type of nationalism that is actually pretty inclusive. If you have a Scottish accent you are automatically one of us and no one gives a flying fuck about your skin colour or where your grandparents came from. Our flag is still a symbol of pride not something used as symbol of hate.

Pretty much anywhere you go in the English speaking world and beyond, people are friendly when they find out you are Scottish. The exception to this is, ironically the south of England. I've had my accent understood with no problem from Iceland to Australia, but in London apparently I am no longer speaking English.

Maybe that's why Scottish people don't like ignorant English people getting the name of their nationality wrong!

Also when does teasing become bullying?

It's not teasing. It's deliberate unpleasantness.

What was the slaves view ?

Seems apposite

Are there local elections on soon by any chance? I mean a post on MN is really going to convince me to change my mind 😂

I'd be willing to bet your Scottish family members don't like you as much as you think they do @Pineneedlesincarpet 😂

"banging on about the alleged joys of being English and how practically no one wants to celebrate them?" When have I done that?

Bullying?? By calling someone Scotch? Have the Scotch become so frail?? Not the ones I have in my family or any that I know!

This thread is so funny.

I have to say that English do get it the worse. I remember i was watching football england vs Spain and after Spain won there were all these jokes about hwo England deserved it due to colonialism. Spain was playing?!?!?!