English people are second class citizens

[NotAnotherScarf]

Aibu To be annoyed about so many Facebook posts about celebrating st George's day being racist. No one post this for st Patrick's day, st Andrew's or st David's.... Hogmanay and burns night have parties

By celebrating being English, passing democracy to the world, Shakespeare, Agatha Christie, TV, the jet engine, the internet... railways, the industrial revolution, beer, the Beatles... All should be celebrated.

Yes we did some shite things...but white slavery (20+ million), the Holocaust, programs in Eastern Europe. King Leopold of Belgium hunting African people. The depopulation of parts of the USSR, the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia.....all things that in the last 125 years England has nothing to do with...yet people like to think that we who celebrate our Englishness are scum.

I thought the US founders were mostly influenced ideologically by France after the French Revolution. French philosophers etc.

You put England, not Scotland.

Re: TV - John Logie Baird was Scottish.

Hiwever, he’s not the original patron saint of England it was St Edmund! St George is reputed to be a Roman soldier who never set foot in England!

A Scotsman actually invented the first television.

Also the "democracy" that you think was given to countries like Australia, India and the US was surely British, not English and so fuck all to do with St George's day.

Simon de Montford was an interesting character in terms of democracy if anyone is interested in googling.

I put "England (Britain)". Because I was directly responding to OP's point that England was not involved in the slave trade. I put Britain in brackets afterwards to acknowledge that it wasn't just England but other parts of Britain were involved too, and I deliberately named a Scottish city that I know was involved. I'm not denying that Scotland was involved, but that's not the point of my post, or of this thread.

England, the only country that don't fly their own flag.

I think they’ve done a pretty good job of screwing themselves up - if it’s that bad, why do they want to come to Britain?

Yes those Welsh and Scotch and Irish (up until whenever) were colonialists too. We must never forget.

Okay but it is pretty common at the minute to blame England for the ills of the empire and to pretend Scotland wasn't involved. For example David Livingston in Africa. Glad you acknowledge it though.

This whole thread seems like a poorly conceived and executed attempt to wind up the Scots and the Irish, who apparently see themselves as 1st class citizens, celebrate their respective patron saints days and conspire, for reasons known only to themselves, to prevent English people from celebrating theirs.

That is true, and they were also influenced by the Scottish enlightenment. I suppose my point is that if the US hadn't been colonised by the UK then those ideas might not have made it there. I think the important point is that they made decisions to shape their democratic system in a way that was distinctly different to the UK system so it's incorrect to say that England gave the USA the vote, which is the point I was responding to.

You forgot the Welsh. Don't they deserve to be wound up too or are they just a little attachment to England and don't count???

Your social media reflects your interests OP.

Thats because its a big fun piss up. And the irish had to fight for their freedom!

@Pineneedlesincarpet sorry, them too.

David Livingstone came from just up the road from me. I know all about what he did and I don't deny it. I also don't create posts on Mumsnet claiming that my country did lots of things that we did not, and that we never did anything bad in the world. All countries have bestowed benefit on the world, and all have made mistakes too, some with greater impact than others.

The French only helped the US to annoy the English though. Realistically. So they were bound to do a few little "tweaks" to irritate the English and make sure they didnt think that the US were copying them.

I’m proud to be English and love the St George’s flag! We see a lot about celebrating diversity and other cultures in England and across the UK; nothing wrong with celebrating our own culture as most other nations do.

I mean you’ve just come home from a party apparently celebrating it and you’ve ended up feeling embittered, so it’s not a great advertisement.

I'm English. St George's Day isn't a bank holiday, so I don't care for it if there's no day off work 😂 we aren't second class citizens calm down. I couldn't give a monkeys for the English flag being put up properly by councils to celebrate. I do object to the racist numpties spray painting it on roundabouts and chucking it on lamposts that'll fly off into the road at the slightest gust of wind

Don't be a creepy stalker.

What a load of twaddle. Did you never take part in a st George's day parade as a child? Did you never draw English flags at school, learn about St George? I’m 50 and did these things.

Bikers have been gathering to celebrate where I previously lived with a massive biker parade of St George’s day for over 20 years.

No, they deliberately designed a system that didn't have the flaws they perceived in the British system. Don't forget at the time the USA was designing their democratic structures, the UK wasn't really democratic - our parliamentary system was designed to protect and promote the interests of the the wealthy minority.