to feel like some older relatives respect men’s time more than women’s?

[stressy1]

I’m starting to get really irritated by this.

I pop in to see my grandad most days to help out as he is chronically unwell. He does have carers but they can't do everything that is needed understandably. . I don’t mind helping at all, but he’ll ask me to do things that his sons could easily do, but apparently they’re “too busy”. As if I’m not? I’ve got two jobs and DC.

It’s the same with my elderly uncle who’s had a stroke. I help him out regularly, but again he has a son (single, no DC) and the attitude is just that it’s easier for me to do it because he’s “busy”. He is very proud of his son having a BIG job always making excuses for him.

Even DM does it. She’s constantly asking me to do things and if I suggest my brother could help, it’s straight to “he’s busy”. He’s single, no kids, fewer commitments than me but somehow his time is treated as more valuable.
I don’t actually mind helping. That’s not the issue. It’s the assumption that I’m automatically the one who will do it and that my time is more flexible or less important than the men’s.

I am not saying ALL older people are like this. I have some older relatives who never do this.

Agree. My female friend is dealing with the exact same thing, and the sons actually live with the parents who are asking for help! They always make excuse for them saying “they’re tired after work”, “they’re at the gym”.

My friend has started pointing it out and stopped helping, and got told she’s being difficult.

YADNBU!!
start shutting the requests down with “oh me too.. soo busy!”

I know that’ll get some responses of. “How could you!”
but the more this misogyny is pandered to, the longer it perpetuates

Absolutely not UR. It's a generational thing but doesn't make it right. Historically caring for elderly relatives very much was a woman's task but of course (a) married women with children probably wouldn't have worked full-time or been the main or co-breadwinner for their households in the same way they are today (b) changing demographics mean that there wasn't the squeezed middle effect where working aged people can have up to 20 years worth of caring for two (or even in some cases 3) generations, their own children, their parents and their grandparents. Historically people would probably only have a few years of significant incapacity and need for assistance on average before they died, now people live much longer overall and don't die anywhere near as much of short sudden illnesses like infectious diseases, heart attacks and strokes, which is a good thing of course, but means they do live for longer with the side effects of surviving such things or with other debilitating illnesses that come with old age like dementia or arthritis. Also people tended to live nearer their parents or with their parents in multigenerational households rather than being spread out as they are now.

So I think basically some older people do try to apply the standards that maybe worked 100 years ago (which were hardly ideal or fair in themselves) to today's world, and have expectations that women can or should prioritise care work in a way that men can't or shouldn't have to - I don't think it's that they don't logically see that the women in their lives are just as busy if not more so than the men, it's more a polite/subconscious way of expressing that they don't want or expect from their sons or nephews but they do from their daughters or nieces.

I do think prolonged illness and incapacity do tend to make you somewhat less logical and reasonable in themselves so you have to be a bit more tolerant. And it's always a very hard thing to ask for or accept help in the first place particularly if that's quite intimate or personal help, so if people's instincts are naturally to prefer a female family member rather than a male I do think it's understandable, we are quite hard wired to associate women with caring and comfort after all. Doesn't mean you have to say yes to every request of course, of course you can and should only do as much as you can but I guess hard as it is you just have to set boundaries and stick to them whatever is then thrown at you...

Men’s time is respected more than women’s but its not a generational thing its a societal thing.

When my DC were school age DH was always listed as the first contact if they were ill etc. This was because he was geographically closer in emergencies (I was sometimes out of the country…). Without exception every single time it would be me receiving the call because Mum.

Invites to birthdays, queries about availability of a child - all directed to me just using DH as a messenger at most.

Women are still assumed to be responsible for the emotional labour of a family, even when a couple of thousand miles away with a perfectly capable father in residence.

Totally agree with this! When my MIL was sick, my DH wasn’t great at offering practical support and could have done more, but he has autism and gets very overwhelmed. Despite having 3 young children, a full time job and a serious health condition of my own, various members of his family believed that as his wife my job was to step up and make up for what my DH wasn’t doing. I refused - because I literally couldn’t have fitted more into my life without breaking - and as a result now have no relationship with SIL. I couldn’t believe that as a woman she still thought that it is the job of women to plug the gaps that men leave, and that my time was less important than my DH’s time.

Women are generally conditioned "people-please" and often find it far harder to just say no. I hope that is changing.

Well, absolutely they do, but there's no reason for you to allow that to impact your life. Bluntly, at the moment, you doing the unpaid caring you're doing despite having two jobs and dependent children are reinforcing the idea that your time is less valuable than your brother's or your male cousins' time. Do less. Be less available. Just say you don't have time.

Yep you need to break the cycle

Bob's department sorry grandad

Just stop

They will eventually get round to asking the useless not really busy men

Have you spoken to your uncles, cousin and your brother to say clearly, that they have just as much or more time than you and they're taking advantage?

Not UR but it’s not generational, it’s structural. Many people of all ages think men’s time is more important, men’s opinions matter more etc etc - it probably won’t be openly articulated. But you’ll see in things like…In public opinion, a woman who could be an expert in her field, but men are still viewed as more authoritative even if they know absolutely zero about the topic. This is a core part of how a patriarchal society sustains itself.

Yes, I think this is also a major factor. In OP's case, he doesn't like to admit that his DGD willingly makes time for him whilst his DSs refuse to/and or keep making excuses not to - so it's more palatable for him to tell himself and others that they're 'too busy' rather than that there's no point asking them because they just don't care enough to put themselves out.

there was just a post on another thread where a friend expected the poster to go out and get a birthday present for friend's MIL. Why friend's husband couldn't do it? He was resting and didn't fancy.

Women's jobs are also less important, even if it'd literally the SAME JOB

YANBU

Decide what help you are comfortable providing and steadfastly say no to anything else that comes up.

I do think it is mainly a systematic issue but also that women can be victims of our own caring hormones during the first half of life and it ends up being taken advantage of, being aware of it can help you maintain healthy boundaries though.

Also the number of times a 'desperate' mum will beg a female friend or family member to babysit last-minute; and then it turns out that the child's father is actually there at home all the time, but he's 'too busy' - often just gaming or watching TV.

Yes, we all know about old-fashioned attitudes and societal pressure. Yes, it's tremendously annoying when this happens, and yes it still does happen. But YOU ARE THE ONE PUTTING UP WITH IT.

No one is going to step in to resist societal pressure on your behalf. Only you can actually do this in your own life. Venting to us is completely pointless. Tell your older relatives! And then let your actions continue to do the talking.

Or, don't do that because it's awkward. Continue to people-please. Nothing will change but that is your choice.

Tell your older relatives! And then let your actions continue to do the talking.

I have told my older relatives. My grandad's grabber broke. He told me he needed a new one. I said your son can order it online and have it delivered. This didn't work because he can't get to the door to answer so order gets returned. Neighbours are not always in to take the parcel. I insisted the son sorts it out. Anyway he didn't, Grandad then tried to get up and item himself, fell over and banged his head on the fireplace and ended up in hospital. I ended up buying the grabber to stop this from happening again. There are lots of incidents like this.

So what do I do then?

Am I just people pleasing?

I have spoken to them and say they will do more but then don't. I could leave my uncle who has had a stroke but then something awful usually happens and he ends up getting hurt because he can't manage. He has carers but they just dash in and out and the staff are always changing.

People pleasing is not an insult. You are trying to be a good, kind person. What you need to consider is if you withdrew, what would happen. You cannot be the one that always keeps the aircraft in the air. X

Yes. Ultimately, while you're there hovering in the background, no one else will put themselves out. Stop liaising with the other people you think should be doing the work. Just making it plain you are stepping back, either entirely or listing only the very specific things you will be doing.

Because if you died in the morning, everyone would get on with things. New ways would be found.

Ultimately, to be brutal, it's not your issue if 'something awful happens'. You have done a huge amount of unpaid caring to the detriment of your own life and I suspect (as the child of someone who was exactly like you) of your children's.

It's not your job to stop other people from having to deal with the consequences of their actions/inaction.

I’m not even convinced it’s entirely an age thing. I have relatives my age (30s) who will expect help from me or my mum but not other male relatives who have fewer commitments. It’s almost as though they empathise with them more and see how it would be inconvenient for them.

THIS THIS THIS!

This is true. People are reluctant to ask men to do things where they do not hesitate to ask a woman.

Yes, it is - people pleasing means you doing things for people, hoping for their approval, acceptance, acknowledgement and it usually means putting yourself second.
It’s not the same as doing something selfless or thoughtful for someone else.

Absolutely ! My mother in law does this. Rings me during the week to ask about family dos or with a problem. Im a social worker dealing with trauma front line and Absolutely manic.
Her SON has his own office business 5min from her house!! Not saying he's not busy but he can take calls 100x easier than I can!

I do keep saying 'I couldn't answer phone I was with someone' and 'I cant talk right now ive got to go in a rape crisis '..she says 'oh ok, well ring me later, I dont like ringing DH cos I know hes at work!'
Wtf!!

But shes otherwise lovely and I love her so will iust keep on trying to explain and telling my DH to ring his bloody mother!!