To wonder if there will be any fall out from skinny jabs?

[TheLemonGuide]

Everyone I know is now suddenly very slim. Okay, im exaggerating slightly, but genuinely, most of my friends who were previously overweight are all now slim thanks to skinny jabs. I am delighted for them! It seems unbelievable to think that a jab can cure this obesity crisis, but I am so pleased my friends and a couple of family members are able to live a healthier life thanks to this.

My only slight concern is, is this something that is going to be too good to be true? Do you think there will be any long term repercussions, or are we right to just celebrate this medication as a cure for something that so many have been battling for so long?

Sure I ordered for the first time with weights down the back of my trousers (I had to stand in the scales during a call). Now you can start with a BMI of 26 but then you couldn’t. I had cycling shorts on under my trackies and I had dumbells tucked in. Wasn’t visible from the front. It was with Shemed. Once you have been accepted to start with one pharmacy you can move to one of the maintenance pharmacies so can use a regular photo even if your BMI is 21.

@MeridaBrave do you mean an in person NHS doctor or an in person private doctor? I really don’t think that level of monitoring would be typical. Regular DEXA scans would surely require much larger payments than what people pay for the medication. Which would make it far too expensive for many. There’s no way the NHS would do DEXA scans for every person using these medications for weight loss.

Regarding your fraudulent access of these medications, there are probably ways you would have found to access them even if you had to have an in person appointment. The fact that some people are determined and persistent in accessing medication they don’t meet the criteria for is not a reason to enforce barriers above and beyond what is acceptable for other medications.

I admire your optimism regarding the NHS monitoring there @MeridaBrave especially in the light of the post above from @InfoSecInTheCity

A family member is on WLI for diabetes weight loss and the monitoring has been pretty similar to Info's account.

Which doesn't really address any of the points in my post, based as it was on some specific claims by the pp. I certainly agree that misuse is possible and that some people are doing it, but there can't be many who dispute that.

@InfoSecInTheCity has provided us with a detailed and very useful account of her NHS experiences. They include no bone density monitoring, the ability to access a higher dose based only on her unverified request and would give her the opportunity to sell the medication on to someone else if she wanted. I wasn't remotely surprised to hear any of this either.

And I’m sure with your genuine concern you feel all dieters should have rhis monitoring, it’s not about the drugs. And you also feel the same foe all fat people as you understand fully its the most fatal condition to have right. Number one cause of cancer in non smokers, number two in smokers. Before we even talk about heart attack, stroke, diabetes, etc. it’s just you forgot to mention that.

and with all the billions you want to spend monitoring people’s diets and muscle mass. How do you feel as a society we will pay for this? You forgot to mention that too.

I've got a BMI of 19 and always have but have very disordered eating, always have. I have no issue whatsoever with people taking WLIs that have a need to take them.

I've not looked in depth into how easily it is to obtain WLIs but IMHO, those arguing for them to be continually and easily available via online consultation are missing the point.

How many other POMs are available via online consult that are frequently abused and also not required to have any back up testing such as blood tests?

If there are other frequently abused drugs that are easily obtained via an online consult (that is easily manipulated), how is this not a problem?

I've known of people trying to get thyroxine to try and lose weight but they'd never be able to get it legally or via online consult without actually having a medical need for it.

I am gobsmacked anyone thinks it's perfectly okay to be able to obtain WLIs via online consult when they are so clearly going to be abused by many.

So yes, they should be available for those that need them but absolutely not at the expense of safeguarding vulnerable people from WLI abuse.

What blood tests would you suggest?

well clearly if someone is obese it might be worth losing muscle. It’s those who are losing for vanity. I think if you want to take for over a year you should have to pay for a dexa to show not under muscled. A dexa scan costs less than one months supply of the drug.

Who is losing weight for vanity? Just people who access the medication illegitimately when they don’t qualify for it? Or do you mean people being prescribed it off licence at a BMI under 27/30? That’s a relatively new option and the handful of providers that do that are free to offer or insist on extra things like scans if they think it’s appropriate.

This is an oversimplification.

There aren't infinite resources, either financial or HCP. The UK has an ageing population which on a societal level places more strain on healthcare systems. That means we have to think about resource management, whether we like it or not. There are no free lunches.

Any healthcare system capacity spent on whatever level of additional monitoring you want is unavailable to do something else that might be more beneficial overall. Hence online consultations plus reliance on self-reporting and self-monitoring already exist across both the NHS and some other areas of private healthcare provision. This isn't going to change. It does create some obvious risks, but handwringing about this doesn't remove the benefits or the downsides of doing it differently. If you want to use resources for monitoring, you need to explain why this monitoring is the best use of those resources. Meanwhile, WLIs would still continue to be available to people wanting to use them without meeting the criteria because they get smuggled in from abroad.

And the reality is that any medication anyone in the UK is prescribed and not made to take in front of a HCP can potentially be sold on abroad to people who don't have our access to relatively safe and free medications. It would be naive indeed to imagine this doesn't happen.

Um who is losing for vanity, I think you just revealed the real issue here, it’s becaude it makes women conventionally more attractive, being slim.

so all these folks marched off tk get scans. If they are losing muscle, what would you like to happen, taken off their diets or meds and forced to be fat?

It's all so vague, isn't it? People can't just say what they mean and be precise. Almost like they're worried they won't be able to justify their arguments.

I am not asking anything. I am a poster on MN discussing a topical topic. Several studies have found a large proportion of the subjects of their study are eating extremely low amounts of both calories, and also insufficient protein and other nutrients necessary for the basis building blocks of the body.

And several studies have reported their findings at large conferences recently, stating they are concerned about early sarcopenia and osteopenia and osteoporosis, as a result of poor nutrition - basically, below starvation dieting intake of calories - and lack of exercise in the populations they have studied.

It used to be, until quite recently, people thought people just got weaker as they got older. Turns out, it's use it or lose it.

People, without making effort to address it, lose a certain percentage of muscle mass per decade in adult life, anyway. If you throw in a large proportion of muscle mass lost on top of that, as a result of ignorance/lack of information while using WLI, then you risk reaching your 50s or 60s with severe sarcopenia, and all that that entails.

There is nothing "healthy" about needing walking aids, being too weak to perform basic functions, or having to move into a nursing home at a young age because you simply do not have the muscle left to get about.

The problem with this is that you think that the majority of people using WLI to move from obesity to a healthy weight are ignorant and a bit thick, it seems! We are told about diet and exercise. You cannot force people to eat and exercise as you think they must, because as a PP says we are not a North Korea like state. Even people on the NHS getting these medications could not be forced to eat a specific diet and exercise in a specific way.

I don’t think the majority of people using WLI are that ignorant, and I think most are taking the opportunity to improve their diet and exercise. I know that everyone on the support threads that I post on are doing that. And everyone that I see on other platforms who are taking WLI.

Nothing says well-informed like the attitude of "muscle loss, lol".

"Dangerously low in muscle lol."
"check how much muscle you’ve lost lol."

I have seen stupendous amounts of ignorance on WLI threads.

You cannot force people to eat and exercise as you think they must

I am not doing anything. The studies are suggesting these things, and warning about an unforseen consequence for hundreds of thousands of people globally. You don't need to take it personally.

Can you link to those studies please?

incan show plenty of studies saying the opposite , as well as anecdotally we can see thousands of people’s diets on here and Reddit showing rhe opposite.

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11340591/

Cmon then show us the studies where people are dangerously losing muscle. Also can yoh then counter balance it with the studies into the risk of obesity. As I understand fully it’s not you’re just jealous so would wish to present a balanced view,

Haven’t read the whole thread (it’s 32 pages long!) but I wonder about possible side effects that will come out years afterwards as well. It seems to gone from zero to hero in a short space of time. Only around five years ago it was being introduced to treat diabetes, and now every other Tom, Dick and Harry seem to be using it for weight loss.

Those posters are not displaying ignorance of an issue. They are disagree with the hyperbolic exaggeration of that issue. No one is arguing that a healthy diet and exercise is sensible when you are losing weight long term.

The “possible consequences” are also not unforeseen. People are already told about diet and exercise, from pharmacies, in the patient leaflet that accompanies each injection pen, and so on.

Hi @Silverbirchleaf I’m one of those “Tom, Dick and Harry”’s that are using GLP1s for weight loss. I’m not misusing it or acquiring it for a condition it’s not meant for. The use of GLP1s for weight loss is well established, fully tested and approved. Many medications are developed and then their uses extended to treat other conditions as the evidence is found that they are effective.

When considering possible as-yet unknown future side effects, what you need to remember is that obesity is not a neutral position. It has known serious health implications. It is better to risk possible future unknown side effects to remove the definite, multiple and serious effects of obesity.

Plus, there has not been any suggestion of any new serious side effects from the many ongoing trials and from the real life use of these medications.

they Know this, that’s why it’s the major teller this is about an emotional reaction to women being able to lose weight, envy or resentment, because if it was genuine concern, you’d see a balanced argument. The very real life ending or limiting risks of obesity v some future unknown risk of a med been used for over 40 years in real life or trials. And how it’s important to eat right. As thays all it is, important to eat right.

instead we hear about some people who under eat, about muscle loss. Like fat people are thick people and everyone is at it. Which in itself is curious as clearly many of those posting these mad comments are fat themselves.

Tom, Dick and Harry use it because it’s been approved for weight loss!

@SilenceInside Sorry, didn’t mean to offend by using flippant terminology. All I meant was that it’s only a few short years since it was being introduced for a specific use (diabetes) (via specialists only?) and now anyone (within the criteria) can order it through Superdrug et al, and hopefully it’s massive use won’t reveal side effects not detected in the smaller original usage.

Lol that people think that if it was medication given by the NHS, you’d have more medical supervision and you wouldn’t need to inject yourself.

The massive use now is due to the side effect (weight loss) that was detected in its original use.