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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Faithless12 · 15/04/2026 07:49

I’m completely neutral on this topic but notice that @Youlittlenightmare expectation is that the grandchildren are brought to the grandmother not that the grandmother visits the grandchildren.
I don’t have to think about this as neither of us have mothers anymore but if both mothers declined to do any favour, my expectation would never be day to day childcare but a one off and refused to visit us, I’m sure our visits would be few and far between to them.
From listening to friends who do have mothers the ones that refuse to help out at all seem to be the ones who demand they are visited.

SatsumaDog · 15/04/2026 07:49

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:41

My PIL are very hands on and looked after both our children 1 day per week when they were small. That was offered, not demanded. My mother lives a distance away, but when she visits she loves to spend time with them. My father sees them a few times a year when we visit him. All different circumstances driven by them, not us. All have an equal right to see their grandchildren on their terms. They are not our slaves.

If your kids are seeing someone once a week of course they are going to be emotionally closer than someone they see a few times a year. Thats not cruelty - thats a natural consequence of circumstances

Where did I say they were closer to my PIL? They are close to all their grandparents in different ways. You don’t have to physically see someone on a weekly basis to be close to them.

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2026 07:50

There's been a few lately from multiple perspectives.

WiltedLettuce · 15/04/2026 07:52

I’d suggest any (healthy) grandparent who avoids/refuses any 121 time with their grandchildren whatsoever, and only wants time when parents are present, isn’t really as interested in a relationship with their grandchildren as they profess to be.

They're also treating their children as unpaid childcare, which is what they want to avoid happening to them.

If you want to see your grandchild but only with a parent or carer hovering in the background ready to step in when you get bored or fed up, then you yourself are treating that person as unpaid childcare.

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:53

SatsumaDog · 15/04/2026 07:49

Where did I say they were closer to my PIL? They are close to all their grandparents in different ways. You don’t have to physically see someone on a weekly basis to be close to them.

Well yes you do actually - there is literal research on this and to develop close relationships with people, proximity and time spent together is one of the main factors.

That doesnt mean you cant develop a bond with someone you see only a few times a year or that its impossible, but in reality, you will be closer to someone you see often. If it werent the case then long distance relationships wouldnt be so challenging

Katypp · 15/04/2026 07:53

Favory · 15/04/2026 07:45

When I, and many other grandmothers, had children we went back to work when they were 6 weeks old. It's what we had to do. Many of us are still working.

But what's your point about housewives?

I've said this before and it is always brushed aside as an utter irrelevance. No one - no one - has ever had it harder than today's younger parents with their long maternity leaves and flexible working, you need to understand that.
I am nearly 60. So potential grandparent age. All of my friends were working parents and are still working now. The idea that my generation were all housewives is complete nonsense - we were the generation of working mothers who fought for the benefits today's parents enjoy.

TheBeaTgoeson1 · 15/04/2026 07:54

AI slop.

Write in your own words OP

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/04/2026 07:55

I'm not a grandmother so am looking at it from the outside but it does seem to me that this is an issue that has grown and grown with no one actually asking grandmothers (or fathers) if they minded. In my village every school holidays I see a lot of clearly well into their 70s pushing buggy's or wrangling toddlers. With ppl having children much later now, grandparents are generally much older. My own grandmother was in her mid 50s when I was born but my mum didn't become a grandmother until she was 66.

some useful data here on the societal level numbers https://repository.norland.ac.uk/id/eprint/42/1/Kanyal%20Grandparenting.pdf

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 07:55

I never had any expectation of childcare help from my parents when dd was little. We didn't live near them, so it wasn't really an option.

However, they subsequently chose to move just up the road from us, and asked if they could pick dd up from school twice a week.

I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the close bond that they formed with my dd was different because of the time that they spent together and the care that they provided. It would be stupid to deny that, frankly.

Would she have had a relationship with them if they hadn't been picking her up from school twice a week and looking after her? Of course, we would still have visited to facilitate the relationship. But it would have been a different relationship and one that wasn't as close, not because anyone would have been punishing them for not helping, but simply because of the way in which human bonds are formed.

firstofallimadelight · 15/04/2026 07:57

@Youlittlenightmarewhats your view the other way op? Should adult children support their ageing parents ? Provide care, do shopping etc? Or is it the same only if they want to?

Jamesblonde2 · 15/04/2026 07:57

Family should help each other, end of. No burden is discharged simply because you have brought up your own children. I think your understanding of what a family means is warped OP.

Butchyrestingface · 15/04/2026 07:57

What an insufferably rude, dogmatic, childish OP. 😲

It wasn't that her OP was bad and didn't make valid points. It did. But her behaviour thereafter towards other posters giving polite responses reveals the mindset of a black-and-white 'my way or the highway' type - which only undermines her original argument. Anyone who doesn't 100% kowtow to her position is accused of 'derailing'.

crowfollower · 15/04/2026 07:57

I will babysit, take grandchildren overnight at the weekend, fill in the odd day if child is sick etc, visit as much as I can but I will absolutely NOT provide regular childcare. I have seen friends of mine saddled with kids, 5 days a week from cockcrow till evening. There is NO WAY on earth I am going to do that. You see grandparents every day in Tesco, trying to wrestle a toddler into a trolley and have a baby in a buggy at the same time, They look frazzled and old before their time.
My sister did it to my Mum, One child, then another and then another, My Mum was up at 6.30 every morning for the kids coming at 7 and then they were collected at 6.30, sometimes 7. 5 days a week and then she had the audacity to ask her to babysit the odd weekend too. My sisters ultimatum? We cannot afford childcare or we won't be able to pay the mortgage so you HAVE to do it Mum or we will go under.
My Mum struggled so much towards the end but was afraid to give it up because of how much guilt my sister made her feel.
Disgusting and selfish behaviour. How anyone can out that on parents is beyond me.

Americasfavouritefightingfrenchman · 15/04/2026 07:57

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:12

Ah the old chuck some "nuanced" mud in the water and claim "empathy" because the simplicity of the truth is a bit confronting ploy.

No. No, I don't thnk we will.

Everything already asked and answered.

It hasn’t been really though. Your assertion grandparents (grandmothers in particular) should be able to do whatever they want with their time is fair but just as in a normal, functional family you’d expect people would want to spend time together I would expect they’d want to assist each other.

I don’t think many people actually say they won’t see grandparents if those grandparents don’t help them but rather that posters will say of a grandparent “it’s unreasonable to suggest your own free time is protected to do with exactly as you wish but your children owe you regular visits in their (likely much more limited) free time”. If everyone gets to do whatever they want and no one feels any obligation to help one another and operate as an extended family unit then surely it’s just a natural consequence that grandparents won’t offer childcare, parents won’t offer elder care and visits will happen much more rarely because they will only ever be prioritised if they happen to suit both households.

Weeelokthen · 15/04/2026 07:59

Gallien · 15/04/2026 05:17

Honestly this post just makes you sound unhinged. I'm sure you have a valid point but come across as a person far too angry and unpleasant to engage with.

It must have taken her quite a while to compose that tirade 😂
The anger is palpable, i'm glad she aint my mum

bigboykitty · 15/04/2026 08:00

This is a TAAT. In any case it's very nasty and just intended to sow hate and division.

SardinesOnButteredToast · 15/04/2026 08:00

My MiL looked after my SiL (her daughter's) two kids from being born. SiL and her boyfriend decided to sell SiL flat and move in with the in laws for a year to 'save money for a house'. They holidayed during that year and told in laws that they'd decided to try for a baby. MiL told them that it might be sensible to save for the house and by that point they announced they planned to marry.

They agreed but had an accidental pregnancy, remaining in the in laws house. I watched MiL (and to a much lesser extent FiL) get tired doing a crazy amount of the baby rearing to the extent I'd say it was co-parenting at the minimum. SiL would wander downstairs where FiL had got baby up and was sitting with it, say hi, and wander off to prepare a complicated long cooked breakfast then sit with her phone and eat it before announcing she needed a shower. That baby wasn't touched by her for three hours after it had arisen.

This goes on for a year and the young couple (late 30s) announced a second accidental pregnancy. By this point MiL is exhausted and complaining to me every time we meet. The father is completely useless and refusing to do anything with the baby. In laws eventually paid for a very large wedding and contributed substantially to a house in the same street.

For YEARS after the in laws did all childcare including multiple night a week (both parents shift workers) 'because if I get home at 6.30 I'd need to eat and buy then it's too late to move the children. Even on days where the dad was off he'd dump the kids on lovely in laws because 'theyre missing their gran gran'.

In the end MiL got sick with very bad arthritis and I swear it would have continued to this day if that hadn't put an end to the worst of it. They still do a lot of the care now but they're not raising them.

I definitely blame in laws for not making a boundary but predominantly SiL for being such a granny taker that she'd have her tired 70s parents raise two very high energy boys until they were at school.

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 08:01

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:39

Makes you wonder how this man was brought up if he was such a selfish prick

Absolutely, his behaviour is also a woman's his mother's fault. How convenient. 😒

NoSoapJustUseShowerGel · 15/04/2026 08:01

I totally agree that no one has the right to childcare from parents/in laws.

Neither does anyone have the right to demand time with their grandchildren.

PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting · 15/04/2026 08:04

thefloorislavayes · 15/04/2026 05:32

Humans are what anthropologists call cooperative breeders. Unlike most species, our children are dependent for an unusually long time, and historically mothers didn’t raise them in isolation. Survival often depended on support from other women, especially grandmothers. There’s evidence from multiple historical populations that the presence of a maternal grandmother increased a child’s chances of survival.

It’s been suggested that women evolved to experience menopause partly so that older women could shift their focus from having more children to supporting the next generation. This is often explained through the Grandmother hypothesis.

Humans are unusual in that women live for decades after their reproductive years. From an evolutionary perspective, that’s not random. One explanation is that older women increased the survival chances of their grandchildren by helping with childcare, food gathering, and general support. In that sense, their role didn’t end with their own children - it shifted.

So across most of human history, raising children wasn’t an isolated task. It relied on a wider network, especially other women in the family. That’s part of why humans have been able to successfully raise such dependent offspring.

So the idea that parenting is, or should be, a completely self-contained, individual responsibility is actually very modern. For most of human history, it wasn’t optional - it was how families functioned.

That doesn’t mean any individual grandmother today is obligated to provide childcare. Autonomy still matters. But it does mean that expecting some level of support, or feeling the impact when that support isn’t there, isn’t “entitlement” or a “logical failure.” It’s a reflection of how human family systems have always worked.

Trying to separate family relationships from practical support as if they’ve never been connected ignores both biology and history. These things have always been intertwined - not as a transaction, but as part of being a functioning family unit

Hi @thefloorislavayes, I generally agree with your view on how families used to work, but that was then, and this is now. I am not claiming that 'today' is better than yesterday, or vice versa, they are both of their time.

My personal immediate history is that my late DM was a stay at home Mum for both me and my - 6 years older - brother. It was a very rare event for my mum to have anyone help to babysit me.

On maybe 4 or 5 occassions a year she would ask 'someone' to look after me. For a daytime event, say if she had something like an appointment with her GP - very infrequently - she would take me to my paternal grandmother's home for an hour or two, as that Grandmother lived very close to us.

The other times I was looked after - about 3 seperate evenings a year - were when my DM & DDad - would go to dinner dances held by his firm, or maybe for a meal out. On those occassions my maternal Granddad, would look after me, I don't know why my maternal Grandmother didn't join him, maybe she liked the very rare evening to herself, and I don't think she was as keen on children as my Granddad was! That was of course fine, except I don't think she was a particularly loving Mother, which did upset me for my poor Mum, not that she ever said a word against her. Sadly, I don't ever remember her even giving my DM a hug.

Anyway, my point is, that even by the 1960s, big families all mucking in, just didn't happen where we lived in the South. However, I have good reasons to know that in some areas in the North of England, that is still happening to a lesser extent today. So, I don't think that comparing today's family logistics with those from mainly several generations ago, is particularly relevant, or helpful, with regards to the OP's passionate, and to me, understandable thread.

Having said that, thefloorislavayes, I love to learn about much of the social history of yesteryear, which I prefer to learning by rote, things like the chronical dates of our Monarchs, or which Consort died, and when and how, so thank you for sending me in that direction! 😊

Rusalina · 15/04/2026 08:06

thefloorislavayes · 15/04/2026 05:32

Humans are what anthropologists call cooperative breeders. Unlike most species, our children are dependent for an unusually long time, and historically mothers didn’t raise them in isolation. Survival often depended on support from other women, especially grandmothers. There’s evidence from multiple historical populations that the presence of a maternal grandmother increased a child’s chances of survival.

It’s been suggested that women evolved to experience menopause partly so that older women could shift their focus from having more children to supporting the next generation. This is often explained through the Grandmother hypothesis.

Humans are unusual in that women live for decades after their reproductive years. From an evolutionary perspective, that’s not random. One explanation is that older women increased the survival chances of their grandchildren by helping with childcare, food gathering, and general support. In that sense, their role didn’t end with their own children - it shifted.

So across most of human history, raising children wasn’t an isolated task. It relied on a wider network, especially other women in the family. That’s part of why humans have been able to successfully raise such dependent offspring.

So the idea that parenting is, or should be, a completely self-contained, individual responsibility is actually very modern. For most of human history, it wasn’t optional - it was how families functioned.

That doesn’t mean any individual grandmother today is obligated to provide childcare. Autonomy still matters. But it does mean that expecting some level of support, or feeling the impact when that support isn’t there, isn’t “entitlement” or a “logical failure.” It’s a reflection of how human family systems have always worked.

Trying to separate family relationships from practical support as if they’ve never been connected ignores both biology and history. These things have always been intertwined - not as a transaction, but as part of being a functioning family unit

I agree with you. I would never tell an individual woman that I think she ought to provide childcare to her grandchild if she doesn’t want to. But surely we can all agree that being so individualistic is not what nature intended and is detrimental on a society-wide level?

My family has a Romany gypsy background, though we’ve been “assimilated” for a few generations, and whenever I read these threads I feel so grateful that my family has retained the cultural value that it is a given that everyone helps each other. I simply cannot imagine my mum not helping me when I need it. I have had multiple grandparents, great aunts and uncles etc live into late 90s and 100s and not one of them ever even had a carer, let alone saw the inside of a care home. Outsourcing basic, normal care of family members is absolutely unthinkable to us, and if it means we sacrifice our earnings or “living our best life” then so be it 🤷‍♀️

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 08:07

Weeelokthen · 15/04/2026 07:59

It must have taken her quite a while to compose that tirade 😂
The anger is palpable, i'm glad she aint my mum

I'm just glad I'm not a gran it sounds terrible

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 08:07

WiltedLettuce · 15/04/2026 07:52

I’d suggest any (healthy) grandparent who avoids/refuses any 121 time with their grandchildren whatsoever, and only wants time when parents are present, isn’t really as interested in a relationship with their grandchildren as they profess to be.

They're also treating their children as unpaid childcare, which is what they want to avoid happening to them.

If you want to see your grandchild but only with a parent or carer hovering in the background ready to step in when you get bored or fed up, then you yourself are treating that person as unpaid childcare.

Looking after your own children is not childcare

Lampzade · 15/04/2026 08:09

Totally agree Op
I am not a grandmother yet (my dcs are not at that stage )
However, I am often shocked by the entitlement of some DCs who expect their mothers to act as unpaid carers despite the fact that their mothers do not want to do so .
It is always the mothers by the way never the fathers
Some DCs honestly expect their mothers to retire early to provide childcare to young children or babies
I have made it clear to my DCs that this will not be the case when they have kids .
i will not be providing continuous childcare for any grandchildren .I will babysit , look after them during some of the school holidays to give their parents a break but I will not be looking after them for set days in the week .

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 08:09

You sound like such an affectionate and loving person…

Have you ever wondered why your children appear to consider visiting you to be a chore?

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden.

Or one could say: If she dislikes her grandchildren so much that having them to visit feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the “burden”.

You say “A family visit is not work…. spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.” Then you say “Childcare is work” which contradicts this since you have stated that you consider spending time with your younger family members to be work!

You say “But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.” But one could equally say “if you love your grandchildren, you will want to see them because they are family, because you enjoy their company, because relationships exist for their own sake”. Effectively, you seem to be saying that you don’t consider your grandchildren to be individual members of your family with whom you should have a relationship except via proxy through their parents having to be present at all times to make your life easier?

A lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up”. I am sure you will achieve this aim.

For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.” I’m sure your family agree with you!

Stop throwing a tantrum.” Indeed.

Personally, I have no “skin in this game” because I have never left my children with my parents unsupervised for even an hour and never would. I would not consider the children to be safe in their care because they are not kind people. Actually, they treat people and speak to people in the same sort of condescending, self-obsessed and belittling manner that you adopt in your own post and I can assure you that visits to them are indeed a chore that neither I or my children enjoy.

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