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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 08:10

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 08:07

Looking after your own children is not childcare

Neither is spending time with other members of your own family without their parents present.

Ohpleeeease · 15/04/2026 08:13

Well said, OP. The demand for childcare isn’t the only evidence of entitlement in rising generations unfortunately. The selfishness and helplessness I see around me is depressing.

TheAutumnCrow · 15/04/2026 08:13

RedToothBrush · 15/04/2026 07:50

There's been a few lately from multiple perspectives.

Genuine, or LLMs?

There’s also the weird troll who tells fantastical tales from both DiL/MiL perspectives who pops up regularly under different names. In these threads, the husband’s/son’s role is to ‘work hard’.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 08:13

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 03:27

It's about a plethora of threads demanding that women act as unpaid servants for their adult children, not one in particular, I see this illogical argument trotted out a lot on these demanding hateful threads.

Edited

How funny that you consider it illogical when your own OP is littered with logical contradictions, as I’ve pointed out in my post above. 🤔😁

Owly11 · 15/04/2026 08:15

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 06:12

No, raising a child you have chosen to have does not then entitle you to care. That is the bear minimum you do as a parent.😳

Oh the irony. Your first sentence also applies to adult daughters expecting free child care from their mothers.

getsomehelp · 15/04/2026 08:17

Amen OP.
i suppose the words should be said out loud.
“Dont have children if you cant look after them & you can fund your family independently of me.” Before they get pregnant ! But of course, divorce & financial difficulties arise.
When my D got pregnant (by mistake with her EX boyfriend. & She was deciding to keep the baby or not.)
I was clear that as much as I would always love her & her child, I was not going to be full time nanny… the occasional after school pick up, or baby sit. Yes, but not surrogate mother while she went back to work.
She was shocked 🫢

sunshinestar1986 · 15/04/2026 08:17

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

I agree 💯

ThejoyofNC · 15/04/2026 08:18

What a load of misery. So glad I'm not from modern British culture. It's so selfish.

Theunamedcat · 15/04/2026 08:18

Family should help family

my mother chose to return to work she had a two income household a low mortgage free childcare from her family and friends rarely she used paid for childcare but again she had two incomes low outgoings she could afford it quite easily (her words) when dd was born and I split from her father ALL she did was bitch and moan I was claiming benefits I tried going to night college to train for a better job I asked first if she could watch my dd for one evening she said yes then after I paid she said no my dad was the one who stepped in again and again when she found out he was watching dd she went insane and demanded to do it she then sent my sister to do it instead who also bitched at me for trying to better myself to this day she still complains all the time that im not doing as well as her that im in "rented housing" and isn't it "terrible" without once acknowledging she had it easier by the time she divorced her children were grown enough to watch themselves She wont visit her grandchildren if I tried to visit her she is "busy" so I gave up she is currently in an echo chamber of her own making complaining she never sees the grandkids whilst simultaneously rejecting any opportunity to see them

I cared for my dad before he passed im leaving her care to my sister

Differentforgirls · 15/04/2026 08:18

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:25

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents.

Really? I guess my parents missed that memo then because they provided no childcare whatsoever despite using their parents as childcare 5 days a week when I was a child.

Its not "widely accepted" at all

What are the respective ages of the two sets of grandparents?

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 08:19

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 07:10

Sorry - I'm not understanding the significance in this story of the DH having coffee and a cooked breakfast?

@BlueberrySummerCloud Sorry, I re-read it. I was tired. I now understand that the DH was there so could have been taking his own DC to school instead of breakfasting like a king and having another dad do it!

TiredDinosaur · 15/04/2026 08:19

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 07:15

Fundamentally, I agree with you OP. No grandparent should feel obliged to do childcare, and no parent should feel entitled to childcare help from their own parents - if you have kids, then they are your responsibility, nobody else's. And of course, the fact that this expectation falls primarily on grandmothers rather than grandfathers is pure misogyny.

The reality is more complicated than that though. Relationships typically involve some give and take. If you could help a loved one but choose not to, then that is entirely your prerogative, but that choice sends a message about your priorities that may have potential consequences for the relationship.

Looking after elderly parents is also labour. I'm in the midst of caring responsibilities right now, and I would not say that I am choosing to do it because I enjoy it. Rather, I am choosing to do it because I value the relationship and because I believe that solid relationships involve doing what you can to help those that you love. Even when you don't feel like it sometimes.

My dd is only 20 right now, and I don't know when she is going to have dc but it's likely that I'll still be working FT when she does, so I can't imagine that I'll be available for regular childcare when they're little in any case. But I will absolutely do whatever I can to help, because I love her and want to do what I can to support her. And so will my DH.

Edited

Absolutely agree

LMNOPQRST · 15/04/2026 08:21

Totally agree with your post OP. It seems to be on the increase. I see so many older women pushing round a pram looking absolutely exhausted. They've had their dcs already. The women that expect this of their mothers/parents are so selfish. Also sometimes an older couple looking after them, both look so worn out.
Childcare is expensive, I get that but if you can't afford it or are unable to look after your own dcs then don't have them. More grandparents should say no.
I know someone who looks after their grandchild while their daughter works fulltime and also when they go on holiday. They have no time for themselves and looks exhausted. No retirement for them in reality.

BetterWithPockets · 15/04/2026 08:25

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:37

No, no, sorry but everything already covered by the original post.

So you just want to say your piece and shut down anyone who might have a different perspective. That’s quite entitled too IMO.

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 08:27

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 07:22

YANBU

You won't find a single thread on this site that holds that adult children have a duty of care towards elderly relatives. Whenever a thread comes up because a poster is having trouble providing such care the responses are always emphatically that they should stop trying and prioritise their own nuclear family (I'm not arguing that adult children must always provide care, or that they're shouldn't be limits to the care they offer, or that people cant be very demanding and difficult to care for - its just the general principle).

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents. For childcare it's been that way for a long time but now there are more and more posts intimating that parents money should be part of the deal too - all those boomers who has it so easy are hoarding all the cash and need to start handing it over. The entitlement knows no end.

I agree with this post 100 percent.

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 08:28

ThejoyofNC · 15/04/2026 08:18

What a load of misery. So glad I'm not from modern British culture. It's so selfish.

It really is, and has become so very much more in the last twenty years or so. People wanting it to be just "their own little family" at Christmas being one example.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 08:30

mindfulmoaning · 15/04/2026 06:07

I so t see much reciprocal care though, once the grandparent is no longer useful they tend to be put to one side and the children and grandchildren are too busy to do much caring

I'm seeing this happen to friends already. They're not needy nor do they need care at this point. But now that their grandchildren no longer need childcare from them, they've been dumped. They barely see their grandchildren and children, because their services are no longer needed.

So yep, when they do need care, I don't see there being much chance that any reciprocal help will be available.

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 08:30

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 07:20

Part of the reason that my kids see their GPs so much is because we live close to them, and that is largely because we do have a reciprocal support network and that is why we have chosen to be local to them.

When you intentionally build your family this way, then a consequence is that seeing each other becomes a normal part of your routine. It doesnt become a big thing to pop in there and you already have lots of handy things you need around them because you are there so much.

If we did the occasional visit thing, we wouldn't have things there and would have to always bring everything. Each trip to them would be so much work that it would be too much of a burden.

If you have one set of grandparents who are part of your everyday support network and one set where you occasionally visit them, the former grandparents are naturally going to have a lot more contact and more frequent plans. The latter are going to be an occasional visit when there is nothing else going on.

Of course.

But OP is talking about threats and blackmail.

bloomchamp · 15/04/2026 08:30

Perfectly put post op ,thank you!

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 08:31

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 06:43

That’s true, but don’t most people who have a good relationship with their parents want at least to make sure they’re ok?

.

Flowersforyourchocolateprettyplease · 15/04/2026 08:31

Clonakilla · 15/04/2026 03:40

The individual daughter? It’s surely both parents who are responsible for childcare and therefore both parents who are unreasonable to expect it of their parents?

There’s no point being outraged at expectations that older women provide free care whilst simultaneously assuming it’s the younger woman’s responsibility to provide childcare and her failing when she expects it of others.

Thats because it's mostly women asking their own mothers to help.
They hate MILs and would rather have maternal GM doing double shifts than have anything to do with them.

Unless absolutely desperate of course.

99bottlesofkombucha · 15/04/2026 08:31

To respond to the initial post (although the op clearly doesn’t want any responses, should have taken out a banner ad), a family that had significant grandparent help when they were bringing up their children and doesn’t offer that should expect their dc to feel their parents are not as supportive as their grandparents were to them, because it’s true. And for the grandparents to not even acknowledge that they only got through the parenting/working (or in some cases I know just the parenting, they didn’t work) because of that help and their own child’s parenting life is significantly harder without the family help they had had… I judge that, as mostly do their children. And I plan to try and support my dc if feasible the way we’ve been supported because why wouldn’t I want that for my children? We pay for full time childcare 5 days a week to be clear, but it’s all the extras once they are in school.

(Paste ops response: nope I covered it all in my op and all bases are addressed and also you’re wrong and get off my thread)

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 08:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Cornflakes44 · 15/04/2026 08:37

i do agree that women shouldn’t be expected to do care of any kind unless they want to. However, it really frustrates me that men are largely absence from this discussion. It’s about selfish daughters and lazy grandmothers. Men get away with not playing any part in this toxicity. The burning issue is that parents need to raise their sons to take on equal parenting responsibilities which might help women not feel they need to rope in female relatives to get a break. Grandads might do the occasional babysitting to help out but not over burden grandma. I think grandparents doing a night of babysitting a few times a year and kids picking up some light care for parents when they are older are part of family life. You can’t expect it but it’s part of caring for people I think.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 08:40

"You say “A family visit is not work…. spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.” Then you say “Childcare is work” which contradicts this since you have stated that you consider spending time with your younger family members to be work!"

She's right @ProjectHailMary
Childcare for one's grandchild is a huge responsibility. You're responsible for the safety of someone else's child, and you're on duty every second. I love doing occasional childcare for my DGD's but I'm knackered at the end of the day, and massively aware of my duty to keep them safe, happy and occupied

A family visit does not carry that pressure. I am not responsible for the children, their parents are. I am not having to be hyper alert or occupying (or being occupied by) the children every minute. I'm getting to chat to the adults I love and enjoy the company if my dear DGDs in a more relaxed way (and for a bit less time). When they leave I don't feel the need to collapse on my sofa and have an early night.

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