Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 07:35

I mean things like they have uniform there and it's close enough to get to school, so they can spontaneously spend the night in the week if they want to. They have toys there and books and other things of stimulation and comfort, so they can spend extended time there without missing anything. If my parents need me in the middle of the night and I have to take the kids and base ourselves there for a while to help out, we could do that immediately without the kids feeling totally out of place.

That's what an extended, supportive and loving family looks like.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 07:36

MiserableMrsMopp · 15/04/2026 07:29

Exactly. It's all one way. You owe us, but we owe you nothing. And if you don't do what we want, you'll get less than nothing from us. Oh, and we want some of our inheritance now. You owe us that too. Boomer.

Is that really true though?

I have an immense sense of duty and obligation towards my elderly parent, and I do a huge amount of daily unpaid labour to support that parent. I don't think I am alone in feeling like this.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 07:37

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 07:28

If we did the occasional visit thing, we wouldnt have things there and would always have to bring everything. Each trip to them would be so much work that it would be too much of a burden.

Unless you have a profoundly disabled child who requires a lot of specialist equipment, that's so pathetic and self-serving I'm amazed you were able to type it with a straight face.

Edited

I mean things like they have uniform there and it's close enough to get to school, so they can spontaneously spend the night in the week if they want to. They have toys there and books and other things of stimulation and comfort, so they can spend extended time there without missing anything. If my parents need me in the middle of the night and I have to take the kids and base ourselves there for a while to help out, we could do that immediately without the kids feeling totally out of place.

That's what an extended, supportive and loving family looks like.

illsendansostotheworld · 15/04/2026 07:37

This is one of the most sensible threads l have seen for a long time. My mum always said she wouldn't help bit after my dd was born, l got a 2 day a week job so she had her one day and dh on the other. It was only a morning shift so l was home for lunch but it was absolutely my mum's choice to do this. Disgusting that people expect this of their parents my friend's mum has her dd 3 nights a week and she drives her all over the place and she's in her 80's it's too much.

Octavia64 · 15/04/2026 07:38

I do feel sorry for some of my mum’s generation.

one of her friends in particular, her husband got Parkinson’s very early. Her son was married and they said to her that unless she did childcare (without payment obviously) she wouldn’t be allowed to see her granddaughter.

juggling a toddler and a husband with severe Parkinson’s is not easy.

her son cut her off in the end anyway, but not until they’d had five years of free childcare out of her first.

if there’s one thing harder than family life with small kids it’s juggling small kids and a seriously ill husband.

Dontlletmedownbruce · 15/04/2026 07:38

OP your title is so aggressive that it's not doing you any favours here. I've never seen a presumption that GPs are childcare providers, it seems like you are trying to make it a 'thing' based on your experience and spending too much time online. There are people who are taken advantage of by adult children yes, there are people who are taken advantage of by siblings or partners or parents. Families are complex and often difficult and people need to set boundaries. It's a case by case thing. If you know someone who is being messed around then that's tough on them but it's their issue to deal with, it's not the society wide issue you are pretending it to be.

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:39

Octavia64 · 15/04/2026 07:38

I do feel sorry for some of my mum’s generation.

one of her friends in particular, her husband got Parkinson’s very early. Her son was married and they said to her that unless she did childcare (without payment obviously) she wouldn’t be allowed to see her granddaughter.

juggling a toddler and a husband with severe Parkinson’s is not easy.

her son cut her off in the end anyway, but not until they’d had five years of free childcare out of her first.

if there’s one thing harder than family life with small kids it’s juggling small kids and a seriously ill husband.

Makes you wonder how this man was brought up if he was such a selfish prick

RockyRoadTastesGood · 15/04/2026 07:39

You’re not wrong. People on mumsnet treat and speak about their parents like shit. Everything negative in their life is their parents fault, but woe betide anyone commenting on their own parenting…then it’s all ‘be kind’ and ‘stop shaming’.

SatsumaDog · 15/04/2026 07:39

I completely agree. The idea that grandmothers should be punished by stopping them from seeing their grandchildren if they don’t provide regular childcare is ludicrous and damaging. Unless there’s a very good reason to limit or remove contact,
in which case the matter of childcare is a moot point.

i want my children to see their grandparents, to know them and appreciate them for who they are. I would never remove that right from either party.

My PIL are very hands on and looked after both our children 1 day per week when they were small. That was offered, not demanded. My mother lives a distance away, but when she visits she loves to spend time with them. My father sees them a few times a year when we visit him. All different circumstances driven by them, not us. All have an equal right to see their grandchildren on their terms. They are not our slaves.

Mousespoons · 15/04/2026 07:39

Just to offer a different perspective.
We never asked for childcare, my parents live quite far away and my mum still worked when we had our children. I would never ask for anything and have made the effort to travel to them, have them for Christmas, pay for days out so they can spend quality time with our children. My mother in law loves babies and offered one day a week when I first went back to work but it soon became apparent that for various reasons she couldn’t reliably have my child and it was better to book another day in nursery and have MIL down as emergency contact which has worked well over the years and I’m very grateful.
when my sister had kids my parents were retired, my sister went back full time, had no local family. If I’m honest I think she was a bit naive about booking nursery early enough for going back so my mum travelled to them and looked after her baby for weeks until the nursery place was ready. I know my mum did find it hard at times. Because of this my parents are more confident with her kids, my sister and BIL sometimes leave the country and my mum has her kids. My parents are besotted with her kids in a way they never showed with mine. My kids notice it.

I guess what I’m saying is that maybe I tried too hard to be independent of them and never ask for anything, but perhaps my children have lost out on a closer relationship with their grandparents because of it.

loislovesstewie · 15/04/2026 07:40

I'm 70, and I worked all my adult life. Both my parents had died before I had children and I would never have asked the in laws for help for various reasons even if we lived near them. We paid for childcare, it was financially difficult when they were small but as it was a business arrangement at least I could have honest discussions about what I thought of their services. I will never have grandchildren, sadly, but I would not volunteer to provide regular childcare if I did. It's a long term commitment, we don't know how or when ill health will knock on the door, and to put it bluntly I think that now is the time for me to do things I want to do. I do have some health issues myself and know I could not run around after a toddler. I'm with you OP.

GoodkneeBadKnee · 15/04/2026 07:41

Dontlletmedownbruce · 15/04/2026 07:38

OP your title is so aggressive that it's not doing you any favours here. I've never seen a presumption that GPs are childcare providers, it seems like you are trying to make it a 'thing' based on your experience and spending too much time online. There are people who are taken advantage of by adult children yes, there are people who are taken advantage of by siblings or partners or parents. Families are complex and often difficult and people need to set boundaries. It's a case by case thing. If you know someone who is being messed around then that's tough on them but it's their issue to deal with, it's not the society wide issue you are pretending it to be.

Have you actually read the thread?

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:41

My PIL are very hands on and looked after both our children 1 day per week when they were small. That was offered, not demanded. My mother lives a distance away, but when she visits she loves to spend time with them. My father sees them a few times a year when we visit him. All different circumstances driven by them, not us. All have an equal right to see their grandchildren on their terms. They are not our slaves.

If your kids are seeing someone once a week of course they are going to be emotionally closer than someone they see a few times a year. Thats not cruelty - thats a natural consequence of circumstances

SexIsNotNebulous · 15/04/2026 07:42

I agree with you OP, and I say that as someone whose own mother helped with child care and as a grand mother myself who has DGC one day a week and babysit occasionally.

I do it out of love, we all have a good relationship, we pull together as a team, but I’ll be honest I don’t always enjoy it. But son and DiL are appreciative of what I do and don’t take the piss. They never ever place demands on how any child care should be given, I just do what I did for my own, and everyone seems happy with that.

For us, it’s not complex, entitled or structured, just basic extended family care.

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 07:42

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:39

Makes you wonder how this man was brought up if he was such a selfish prick

Victim blaming much?

Tsundokuer · 15/04/2026 07:42

PollyBell · 15/04/2026 05:24

I agree with the OP and I still really think there is something wrong with the OP's posting style, You are exremley hyper focused OP, is this normal for you?

Edited

‘ChatGPT - start a fight for me on mumsnet’

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:43

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 07:42

Victim blaming much?

Not really- if he was spoilt as a child and treated as such that would explain why he's like this now wouldnt it? or are you suggesting that upbringing has zero effect on our attitudes as adults

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 07:43

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 07:36

Is that really true though?

I have an immense sense of duty and obligation towards my elderly parent, and I do a huge amount of daily unpaid labour to support that parent. I don't think I am alone in feeling like this.

Exactly, I had an unhelpful MIL and we can see the time is coming she’ll need help and all eyes are on us to provide it. Whilst I don’t want to do it. I know I’m going to have to. Which is more than she’s done for us. By the way I don’t think she felt any pressure to provide childcare by anyone. She told us not to ask and that we didn’t 99% of the time. And even in desperate need she’d do it reluctantly & by gosh did we know she helped & in the end when my mom was about to die my husband went to ring his mom so he could be with me and I said don’t, I can’t have a reason to hate your mom if she begrudgingly helps at this time & I went alone and he never got to say goodbye to my mom. I like his mom but she’s selfish & I’ve become resentful

SandwichesAndGingerBeer · 15/04/2026 07:45

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 07:28

I agree but also did wonder if lack of visits from older kids is assumed it’s because they don’t help and not just the logistics of life. If someone helps you out regularly it’s only natural you’ll be closer and lean into them more. Visiting people with kids can be hardwork if the kids aren’t comfortable and don’t want to be there. So you tend to take them to places they’re more happy to be. If your lives intertwine it’s almost to easy to spend time with them, relationships are 2 way streets. If you don’t feel close enough and you have time on your hands then it’s surely in your remit to build a stronger bond. That doesn’t have to mean unpaid childcare. But some grandparents will not even consider taking their grandkids to a park. They want contact on their terms only and if that involves sitting in a house that’s not child friendly sitting on a couch trying to have a conversation then they may not get what they want

💯 this.

I’d suggest any (healthy) grandparent who avoids/refuses any 121 time with their grandchildren whatsoever, and only wants time when parents are present, isn’t really as interested in a relationship with their grandchildren as they profess to be.

There’s a happy, reasonable middle-ground between “I expect routine weekly childcare” and “I’ve done my parenting, don’t expect any help from me with the kids, ever.”

Luckily most families seem to be about to navigate this without drama.

FlyingApple · 15/04/2026 07:45

Your opinion matters less than my own. If my mum didn't want to look after her grandkids sometimes, despite all the help she'd had, which was endless, she wouldn't have seen mine often at all.

DuckyDolittle · 15/04/2026 07:45

This thread has realky made me think about things in a different way, thanks OP!

I think the problem is nuclear families. No-one has a village anymore, you're told the only people you can rely on are your parents, your siblings and your kids when older. If you look at cultures with big families, kids have many different places to go and be looked after, older cousins, non-related aunts and uncles.

The situation can only get worse as less people have less children. I'm an only child, my DC is an only child, they won't have siblings and cousins. So we are instilling the importance of friendship and found family into them.

I can't rely on Mam because she has dementia, although she'd love to have been more involved. So I pay strangers to look after my DC when I have work or rare social times away from DC.

If we need more support, we need to find wider villages than our direct bloodline, and that also means offering support to that village too.

Favory · 15/04/2026 07:45

TiredDinosaur · 15/04/2026 04:27

All these grandparents refusing to help, I'm interested to know if you worked during raising your own kids or if you were a housewife that stayed home ?

When I, and many other grandmothers, had children we went back to work when they were 6 weeks old. It's what we had to do. Many of us are still working.

But what's your point about housewives?

SardinesOnButteredToast · 15/04/2026 07:47

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 04:09

This reads quite black and white, reality is usually more nuanced.

no childcare => no visits, I agree this doesn’t make strict logical sense. But often grandparents express a sense of entitlement to family visits, and days out, may have quite specific ideas of what family time should look like and how children should behave. Those expectations concrete work for the parents, and a sense that instead of helping me with the existing challenges of raising kids you’re actually adding more.

More generally, the attitude around refusing to help is similar to the general growth of individualistic every-(wo)man-for-themselves philosophies. The urge to have children can be very deep and strong. It is natural and normal. In a cost of living crisis I find it cruel to glibly say to people who long for a family but struggle with the financial side “don’t have kids if you can’t support them yourselves”. We were never meant to live these very separate nuclear family lives, and economic changes of the last couple of decades have really crippled a lot of people who have tried hard to do everything right. It makes sense in that situation that people would reach out to their families for help, and that they would feel really quite hurt by a grandparent deciding that their multiple annual holidays and 5 spare bedrooms are more important than helping the parents through the difficult early childhood years and the impossible costs of even modest family housing.

So while I take your point that it’s not good to assume this is all that grandparents are for, and I understand that everyone quite reasonably has their own hopes and plans for their own lives that might not revolve around endless childcare for extended family… I do think you’ve been a bit harsh in some of what you’ve said.

ps I live far enough away from my own parents and from in-laws that I’ll never be asking any of them for any childcare whatsoever, but expect to put in enormous amounts of time, effort and money over the years to facilitate as much relationship as possible. So none of what I’ve said is defensiveness on my side, just trying to add a bit of empathy and nuance.

So, if I understood right, for you it's not so much about expecting childcare as that you feel your parents should sell the family home and transfer the money to you?

WiltedLettuce · 15/04/2026 07:48

OP, I think your initial distinction is flawed (childcare = work, family visits = not work). It depends entirely on the family dynamic. Both childcare for family children and family visits can be "work" or "family life" (or both at the same time).

I agree that no one is entitled to childcare from their parents, and no, the deal shouldn't be visits in exchange for childcare, but really most situations are more nuanced than this.

If your children are expecting you to care for your grandchildren on a regular basis to save on childcare costs, then that is work. Likewise, if you're expecting your children to visit twice-weekly and cook and do chores for you, that is also work. Not just the "family relationship".

But taking your grandchild for the occasional day out or to the park at the weekend is not "work" - that's developing and supporting the family relationship. Spending time with grandchildren without their parents there deepens and develops the relationship. Likewise, occasional family visits and family meals together are not "work" for the parents - it's about spending time together as a family.

But family expectations need to be mutual, not one-sided. Grandparents are entitled to live their own lives and of course they can make the choice that they don't ever want to help out with or babysit grandchildren. They are entitled to decide their own priorities. But their children are entitled to do the same and prioritise their own comfort and convenience. 'Family' is not a one-way street.

And the truth is that, when you're looking after your small children, it is much more pleasant to be around adults who are familiar with them and have some experience in helping you to care for them. My parents live too far away to provide regular childcare but love spending time with and helping out with the children when we visit. They have lots of toys and games for the kids at their house and the children are not treated as 'visitors' who have to be on their best behaviour. When we visit, the adults are a team, looking after the kids together. We all take responsibility for making sure the kids have what they need. By contrast, I have a friend with quite intolerant, elderly parents who is expected to 'manage' her children's behaviour quite heavily when they visit their grandparents. The children aren't allowed to make noise or run about, they're expected to eat what they're given and a huge fuss is made about food (and they're restricted eaters) and there are no toys for them. The grandparents are constantly making remarks about their behaviour to my friend. She doesn't expect any childcare (there is no way she'd leave those people alone with her kids!) but she also feels like an unpaid nanny whenever they visit and keeps visits as short and infrequent as possible. You might describe those visits as "family life", but I'd describe them as unpaid, emotional "work".

Newusernameforthiss · 15/04/2026 07:48

mathanxiety · 15/04/2026 05:12

I think you need to look up the definition of 'straw man'.

Your OP fits the bill.

Straw gran, surely (I'm sorry, I'll get my coat)