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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Katypp · 15/04/2026 07:17

FluffMagnet · 15/04/2026 06:56

I am with you on regular, day-to-day childcare expectations, but would make the following points:

  1. The economy is currently fucked beyond belief, and the massive benefits bill is primarily pensions.
  2. The birthrate is already worryingly low, and increasing the issue above (lack of taxpayers).
  3. Families are therefore stetched beyond belief and often working all hours, and still not getting bills paid.
  4. When I was young (80s/90s) it really was not unusual to see grandparents helping out with childcare, so parents could work, even though it was arguably easier to live off one wage. Might explain some of the expectation of replication this generation.

We are very fortunate that our parents (not just me asking my mum) take our DC for some weeks during the holidays, as the school holidays and our leave allowance simply do not come close to marrying up. They also really enjoy spending time with their grandchildren too, and actively ask to see them. But primarily, they see us struggling and are very keen to ease that burden (as my paternal grandparents - both of them, not such grandma - did for my parents). They have looked after their elderly parents too, and having seen that growing up, I am keen to replicate their model of care going forwards.

Modern life is chaotic woth young children. I can see why parents get frustrated with grandparents wanting to be fully faciliated in having fun only with grandchildren (thus adding to their children's mental load), as this seems almost to mock those already drowning. Be a family and look out for each other. And frankly if you really dislike your child's behaviour and find them entitled, well ... who raised them?

To answer you points:

  1. The massive benefits bill is NOT primarily pensions. Not that this has anything to do with the argument anyway. My tax is listed as most to welfare, then NHS. Then pensions.
  2. That's irrelevant to this argument too.
  3. I have no idea where this rhetoric has come from that today's young families are uniquely under finiacial stress. The years you raise children have ALWAYS been the hardest and most expensive. I am sick to death of hearing about the struggles of parenting today and having the difficulties older generations faced brushed aside.
  4. In the 80s and 90s, women retired at 60. Big difference.

I have no grandchildren but if/when i do, i will provide limited care on my terms or the deal is off. I have no desire to be dictated to about what i can and can't and should or shouldn't do and have it 'gently explained' by the person i raised that i know nothing about raising children.
I am either capable of looking after children or i am not. Full stop.

ronnyysbonnet · 15/04/2026 07:19

Katypp · 15/04/2026 07:17

To answer you points:

  1. The massive benefits bill is NOT primarily pensions. Not that this has anything to do with the argument anyway. My tax is listed as most to welfare, then NHS. Then pensions.
  2. That's irrelevant to this argument too.
  3. I have no idea where this rhetoric has come from that today's young families are uniquely under finiacial stress. The years you raise children have ALWAYS been the hardest and most expensive. I am sick to death of hearing about the struggles of parenting today and having the difficulties older generations faced brushed aside.
  4. In the 80s and 90s, women retired at 60. Big difference.

I have no grandchildren but if/when i do, i will provide limited care on my terms or the deal is off. I have no desire to be dictated to about what i can and can't and should or shouldn't do and have it 'gently explained' by the person i raised that i know nothing about raising children.
I am either capable of looking after children or i am not. Full stop.

Edited

Everyone today is a victim.

Basically anyone who doesn't get their own way at all times is a victim.

tamade · 15/04/2026 07:20

@Youlittlenightmare Agree with your OP in general. One special case would be grandparents who pressure their children to procreate.

And barring abuse and/or absolute breakdown in relationship we should visit our mothers now and again

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 07:20

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 07:13

OP is saying that it's really awful to blackmail grandparents with the threat of not seeing their grandchildren if they don't provide regular childcare.

Surely that's a completely reasonable statement.

I agree with you, OP. I think that would be a truly terrible thing to do and it would literally never occur to me.

Part of the reason that my kids see their GPs so much is because we live close to them, and that is largely because we do have a reciprocal support network and that is why we have chosen to be local to them.

When you intentionally build your family this way, then a consequence is that seeing each other becomes a normal part of your routine. It doesnt become a big thing to pop in there and you already have lots of handy things you need around them because you are there so much.

If we did the occasional visit thing, we wouldn't have things there and would have to always bring everything. Each trip to them would be so much work that it would be too much of a burden.

If you have one set of grandparents who are part of your everyday support network and one set where you occasionally visit them, the former grandparents are naturally going to have a lot more contact and more frequent plans. The latter are going to be an occasional visit when there is nothing else going on.

GreenChameleon · 15/04/2026 07:20

BlueberrySummerCloud · 15/04/2026 06:47

Children are not pawns in people lives to be used as a bargaining tool
My parents lived a couple of hours a way, we saw them once a month and they had a lovely relationship with DC
My own GM was in a different country
I saw her once a year and absolutely adored her

The relationship you have with your GC is different if you see them more often and especially if the parents aren't there. I loved my maternal grandmother very much but she lived hundreds of miles away. My siblings and I saw my paternal grandmother at least twice a week, we'd often spend the night there as well, because she did childcare while my mum worked afternoon or evening shifts. Our relationship to her had a depth and quality that just didn't compare to my other grandmother.
It's nothing to do with children being pawns and more with life circumstances which enable a certain type of relationship.

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 07:21

I saw my gran maybe once a month and I had a good bond with her

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 07:22

YANBU

You won't find a single thread on this site that holds that adult children have a duty of care towards elderly relatives. Whenever a thread comes up because a poster is having trouble providing such care the responses are always emphatically that they should stop trying and prioritise their own nuclear family (I'm not arguing that adult children must always provide care, or that they're shouldn't be limits to the care they offer, or that people cant be very demanding and difficult to care for - its just the general principle).

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents. For childcare it's been that way for a long time but now there are more and more posts intimating that parents money should be part of the deal too - all those boomers who has it so easy are hoarding all the cash and need to start handing it over. The entitlement knows no end.

AmIReallyTheGrownup · 15/04/2026 07:22

Katypp · 15/04/2026 07:17

To answer you points:

  1. The massive benefits bill is NOT primarily pensions. Not that this has anything to do with the argument anyway. My tax is listed as most to welfare, then NHS. Then pensions.
  2. That's irrelevant to this argument too.
  3. I have no idea where this rhetoric has come from that today's young families are uniquely under finiacial stress. The years you raise children have ALWAYS been the hardest and most expensive. I am sick to death of hearing about the struggles of parenting today and having the difficulties older generations faced brushed aside.
  4. In the 80s and 90s, women retired at 60. Big difference.

I have no grandchildren but if/when i do, i will provide limited care on my terms or the deal is off. I have no desire to be dictated to about what i can and can't and should or shouldn't do and have it 'gently explained' by the person i raised that i know nothing about raising children.
I am either capable of looking after children or i am not. Full stop.

Edited

I’m afraid you’re wrong. For every £100 of taxation spent, the breakdown is this:

  • £25 pensions
  • £17 health
  • £12 working-age benefits
  • £10 education
  • £8 debt interest
  • The rest: smaller categories

We spend 2.5x on pensions vs education!

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 07:23

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 07:22

YANBU

You won't find a single thread on this site that holds that adult children have a duty of care towards elderly relatives. Whenever a thread comes up because a poster is having trouble providing such care the responses are always emphatically that they should stop trying and prioritise their own nuclear family (I'm not arguing that adult children must always provide care, or that they're shouldn't be limits to the care they offer, or that people cant be very demanding and difficult to care for - its just the general principle).

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents. For childcare it's been that way for a long time but now there are more and more posts intimating that parents money should be part of the deal too - all those boomers who has it so easy are hoarding all the cash and need to start handing it over. The entitlement knows no end.

It's so strange and inhumane.

EdithStourton · 15/04/2026 07:24

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 04:02

Thanks. I should have expected it. Dh was in hospital for three lengthy periods and got one half hour visit from one child.

Unbeknownst to one child - the one who had actually visited his dad in hospital for half an hour - we didn't get an invitation to the grandchild's 18th. I was given the impression that it was just a girls' weekend for grandchild, daughter and grandmother. Nope, the other child and his partner were there, as was the daughter's best friend.

When DH challenged his daughter about this, the response was "Oh. I didn't think you'd want to go." I'm assuming she thought him too disabled...but she didn't ask.

Before he died, he warned me that he didn't think the kids would come up for his funeral. I told him he was wrong. He was spot on.

They sent a letter for the celebrant to read out, saying how sorry they were they couldn't come. I had to get the celebrant to change it (after telling them) - they'd referred to how bravely DH had battled his various medical conditions. They got the medical conditions wrong...

In short, they succeeded in adding to the stress and heartbreak by giving me extra work.

Here endeth the rant. Basically, I'm admitting that I'm not neutral on the topic.

I'm not surprised you're not neutral. I thought I'd never use the phrase 'unmumsnetty hug', but I think you need one.

Clafoutie · 15/04/2026 07:24

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:17

No thank you, we don't need to defend the indefensible. Everything was covered by the initial post.

You may vehemently disagree with everything said by @CarlaLemarchant OP, as is your right, but they posted in a considered way, whereas you are unfortunately undermining your original post by simply dismissing anyone who puts an alternative viewpoint as ‘derailing’. This is an internet forum where you have to expect a variety of responses. Implying that ones you disagree with are invalid is the very essence of dictatorship!

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:25

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents.

Really? I guess my parents missed that memo then because they provided no childcare whatsoever despite using their parents as childcare 5 days a week when I was a child.

Its not "widely accepted" at all

Loub1987 · 15/04/2026 07:26

Myself and all my friends pay for full time childcare. I don’t know anyone who is getting their parents to do it. Perhaps it is reflective of how your children were raised if they behave like this?

Surely, just say no thanks if asked to do childcare and don’t want to? It’s not that deep.

Your posts are coming across as very angry @Youlittlenightmare

distinctpossibility · 15/04/2026 07:26

My parents retired at about 58, having become grandparents to my kids in their 40s.

I have made lifestyle changes so my own nuclear family is less overwhelmed, but there was a period of time immediately post-Covid where I was quite unwell, both physically and mentally, and one of our children had a nervous breakdown - "burnout" as it is called. In her early teens, she couldn't feed herself, wash herself etc., it was a lot,, especially with other young DC.

My husband and I juggled what we could, but I did find it difficult when my parents basically spent a lot of time supporting others (through voluntary roles, but also informally, for example helping neighbours with errands and family friends with childcare), but seemed to be flatly uninterested in giving me and their grandchildren any support. Frankly, it made me feel like they didn't love me as much as they loved the family friends that they would willingly (and at massive inconvenience) help. While I knew logically that their time is their time to spend how they wish, it was HARD.

Anyway it was quickly sorted with an actual conversation (who knew?!), but I am sorry OP, I think there is nuance and there are human feelings involved. The shift towards individualism and a "not my monkeys" attitude has been rapid and doesn't align with what we are evolved to want and need from each other. It is very hard work having young DC and I think often the refrain of "but you must offer us childcare!!" is about the pain and overwhelm of parenting the early years, and the utter bafflement that loving, involved (grand)parents are suddenly being all boundaried about helping their kids practically with the one resource they are lacking... childcare. Adding another generation to a family changes the dynamics completely and it does take time to bed into the new roles and expectations.

MiserableMrsMopp · 15/04/2026 07:26

TiredDinosaur · 15/04/2026 04:27

All these grandparents refusing to help, I'm interested to know if you worked during raising your own kids or if you were a housewife that stayed home ?

There are not many women now who didn't work, back in the day. Yes, there were some SAHMs, just like there are now. But speaking as a 60 year old woman, I worked full-time all my life and had no parental childcare available.

So get off that hobby horse.

Katypp · 15/04/2026 07:27

AmIReallyTheGrownup · 15/04/2026 07:22

I’m afraid you’re wrong. For every £100 of taxation spent, the breakdown is this:

  • £25 pensions
  • £17 health
  • £12 working-age benefits
  • £10 education
  • £8 debt interest
  • The rest: smaller categories

We spend 2.5x on pensions vs education!

Well that's not what the tax breakdown on my HMRC app is telling me.
Anyway it has NOTHING to do with tjis argument snyway.

NoisyViewer · 15/04/2026 07:28

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 07:13

OP is saying that it's really awful to blackmail grandparents with the threat of not seeing their grandchildren if they don't provide regular childcare.

Surely that's a completely reasonable statement.

I agree with you, OP. I think that would be a truly terrible thing to do and it would literally never occur to me.

I agree but also did wonder if lack of visits from older kids is assumed it’s because they don’t help and not just the logistics of life. If someone helps you out regularly it’s only natural you’ll be closer and lean into them more. Visiting people with kids can be hardwork if the kids aren’t comfortable and don’t want to be there. So you tend to take them to places they’re more happy to be. If your lives intertwine it’s almost to easy to spend time with them, relationships are 2 way streets. If you don’t feel close enough and you have time on your hands then it’s surely in your remit to build a stronger bond. That doesn’t have to mean unpaid childcare. But some grandparents will not even consider taking their grandkids to a park. They want contact on their terms only and if that involves sitting in a house that’s not child friendly sitting on a couch trying to have a conversation then they may not get what they want

Livelaughlurgy · 15/04/2026 07:28

Maybe some of those grandmothers deserve miserable and burdensome declining years because they relied on their own mothers for childcare and this is their penance?

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 07:28

If we did the occasional visit thing, we wouldnt have things there and would always have to bring everything. Each trip to them would be so much work that it would be too much of a burden.

Unless you have a profoundly disabled child who requires a lot of specialist equipment, that's so pathetic and self-serving I'm amazed you were able to type it with a straight face.

MiserableMrsMopp · 15/04/2026 07:29

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 07:22

YANBU

You won't find a single thread on this site that holds that adult children have a duty of care towards elderly relatives. Whenever a thread comes up because a poster is having trouble providing such care the responses are always emphatically that they should stop trying and prioritise their own nuclear family (I'm not arguing that adult children must always provide care, or that they're shouldn't be limits to the care they offer, or that people cant be very demanding and difficult to care for - its just the general principle).

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents. For childcare it's been that way for a long time but now there are more and more posts intimating that parents money should be part of the deal too - all those boomers who has it so easy are hoarding all the cash and need to start handing it over. The entitlement knows no end.

Exactly. It's all one way. You owe us, but we owe you nothing. And if you don't do what we want, you'll get less than nothing from us. Oh, and we want some of our inheritance now. You owe us that too. Boomer.

JustMyView13 · 15/04/2026 07:31

I assume your viewpoints, which you identify as being indisputable, are strictly applicable to any care or support you may require as you grow old. Specifically you won’t expect your children to run round and care for you for free. They have their own lives and don’t owe you it, hence you will fund your own care entirely from your own funds, whatever sacrifices that means you must make.

CinnamonJellyBeans · 15/04/2026 07:33

We paid for childcare in the halcyon days before the COL crisis, but I have no idea how people can afford it now: Women can no longer afford to go part time, or be SAHMs. It also looks like the cost of childcare has outstripped the average wage over the last couple of decades.

If my daughters have children and need help, it will be forthcoming. Either my time, or my money. My working career will have spanned 40 years and I hope to live for another 20 years upon retirement. That's 20 years of work pension and 20 years of state pension. I'm going to get way more money than I ever paid. I'm going to get free money from society.

There's no way I'm sitting on my arse doing nothing, expecting my kids to pay homage to me. I will help and support my kids and any subsequent generations. I produced that life. I feel responsible for it and proud of it. That's my DNA right there and I will always cherish it, nurture it and help it grow, as long as there's breath in my body.

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 07:34

KimberleyClark · 15/04/2026 06:09

So simply having brought up your own children isn’t enough for those children to provide support in your old age then?

Nope. Most people, even neglectful and uninvolved parents, manage to raise their children to adulthood but parenting standards vary massively.

If some parents do the absolute bare minimum while managing not to cross the threshold of the sort of abuse and neglect that would involve the authorities, that certainly isn't enough to expect any sort of help and support in their old age.

Unfortunely, you only need to read some of the posts on the Elderly Parents board to see that, in reality, those sorts of elderly parents are the most entitled and demanding and they expect their children to bend over backwards to provide hands-on care.

MyOtherProfile · 15/04/2026 07:34

sorrynotathome · 15/04/2026 07:16

That’s interesting! Are the people you know all wealthy (SAHPs or can afford professional childcare), young (parents all still working FT), older (parents too old to look after children) or am I missing something?

I'm the same. Most of us didn't have grandparents living in the same town so they couldn't look after our kids. Thankfully some would appear in the long holidays.

GoodkneeBadKnee · 15/04/2026 07:34

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:25

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents.

Really? I guess my parents missed that memo then because they provided no childcare whatsoever despite using their parents as childcare 5 days a week when I was a child.

Its not "widely accepted" at all

Anecdote is not data. OP, thank you for posting. I agree with every word you've said. I've already told my adult DC to not expect me to provide childcare should they choose to have kids. Been there, done that and have no interest in doing it again. So many entitled women on here!