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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 17/04/2026 11:12

TheyGrewUp · 17/04/2026 10:42

In 1995 nursery cost me £1200 pcm. So, yes, I think people of my age do understand. Also there were no childcare vouchers available back then. That price btw was for a baby from 4 months to 16 months because mat leave was six months back then and ot was usual to stop working at about 34/5 weeks pg.

Your DC didn't attend a bog standard nursery for that price though did they? It cost around that amount for a child to attend a top boarding school in 1995.

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 11:12

Katypp · 17/04/2026 11:09

They didn't need two cars because they had grandparents helping and only one job to get to. Younger people need two cars to get to their jobs and share childcare.

How far are you going back?
I am 59 and i and all my contemporaries worked full time throughout. Maternity leave was 12 weeks and then back to full-time as before. No going part time, no school hours working, flexible hours or wfh. No paternity leave.
There were some SAHMs as they are niw, but I didn't know any.

Fair play but I don't think your situation was typical, as backed up by statistics.

juice92 · 17/04/2026 11:23

About 10 years ago my mother and father-in-law sat my husband and I down and said if we had children they would not be providing regular childcare.

This was because they had friends of theirs, who had been lucky enough to retire in the early 60s, only to become full-time childcare for their daughter and her children a couple of years later.

This couple had gone from having a full social life, several holidays a year, and were very happy, to having almost zero social life, being exhausted and not being able to have the holidays they once had.

They did all of this for free to save their daughter the cost of child care. They didn't want to do it anymore but they weren't sure how to tell her without ruining the relationship.

I don't think there is anything wrong in being upset if your parents won't have your child for you once in awhile. But expecting your parents to be regular child care, for a decent chunk of the week, for free and being miffed if they say no is unacceptable.

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 11:25

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 10:51

Well well done for doing well in normal conditions with dead or unhelpful grandparents, no landline and no car. Paradise.

You make it sound as though everyone had cars and phones at the time. It just wasn't the case. Most people around us were similar Obviously you've come from a much more pampered environment to have that mindset.

And how were grandparents being" unhelpful" when they were at work?

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 11:27

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 17/04/2026 11:12

Your DC didn't attend a bog standard nursery for that price though did they? It cost around that amount for a child to attend a top boarding school in 1995.

That does sound expensive.myDD1 nursery fees in 1991 was £125 a week

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 11:37

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 11:25

You make it sound as though everyone had cars and phones at the time. It just wasn't the case. Most people around us were similar Obviously you've come from a much more pampered environment to have that mindset.

And how were grandparents being" unhelpful" when they were at work?

No, I was referencing the parents of today, not older generations. I was agreeing that many do not do all they can to be frugal then complain about lack of money.

Cars? Well in 1980 60% of households owned at least 1 car. That is around 75% now. Not a huge change, but I would argue that there are more factors at work post war. My grandparents didn't own a car, but my parents now at similar age have 2 despite similar wealth. Lack of public transport and local amenities make a car a need to have not a nice to have. Unless you're in central London with the tube etc.

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 11:41

Oh and I didn't want to cast aspersions on your GP, but if they worked, or just didn't fancy it, they were unhelpful.

Anyway, this isn't about your anecdotes, its about the macro situation.

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 11:54

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 11:37

No, I was referencing the parents of today, not older generations. I was agreeing that many do not do all they can to be frugal then complain about lack of money.

Cars? Well in 1980 60% of households owned at least 1 car. That is around 75% now. Not a huge change, but I would argue that there are more factors at work post war. My grandparents didn't own a car, but my parents now at similar age have 2 despite similar wealth. Lack of public transport and local amenities make a car a need to have not a nice to have. Unless you're in central London with the tube etc.

Which means 40% didn't. Got back to 1975 and 50% of people had a car.. I lived in a village where the bus ran twice a week on market days. But the trains ran regularly. People all managed

I am now a grandparent of today. Work full time. 3 of my GC are 300 miles away. The others more local. Am I unhelpful because I don't do regular childcare and if so how?

DD and her husband work opposite shifts and look after kids between them

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 12:03

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 11:54

Which means 40% didn't. Got back to 1975 and 50% of people had a car.. I lived in a village where the bus ran twice a week on market days. But the trains ran regularly. People all managed

I am now a grandparent of today. Work full time. 3 of my GC are 300 miles away. The others more local. Am I unhelpful because I don't do regular childcare and if so how?

DD and her husband work opposite shifts and look after kids between them

Take judgement and emotion out of it, if you don't provide help, you are unhelpful by definition.

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 12:04

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 12:03

Take judgement and emotion out of it, if you don't provide help, you are unhelpful by definition.

So does only childcare count as help or other stuff also

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 12:08

Paid childcare? No its not help, its a service that costs (a lot!) of money. Family or friends providing childcare, with no money changing hands is help. As is other stuff like washing, cleaning, cooking and so on.

TheyGrewUp · 17/04/2026 12:23

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 17/04/2026 11:12

Your DC didn't attend a bog standard nursery for that price though did they? It cost around that amount for a child to attend a top boarding school in 1995.

London: nursery 8 to 6. Standard but good quality. I don't know what a top boarding school cost in 1995.

A child minder would have been less, a full-time nanny more. There were far fewer day nurseries in those days I seem to recall.

Midnights68 · 17/04/2026 12:46

One thing I’ve noticed is that family financial support has an enormous effect on people’s lives, but it takes many forms. Free grandparental childcare is an almost invisible financial benefit some people have available to them, and it’s actually worth thousands and thousands of pounds. I’ve spent over £100,000 on childcare now for two children and my youngest isn’t even in school yet. Thousands of pounds that could, for example, go into an ISA and be used for university so that children can go to university without incurring £50,000 of debt. Life-altering numbers.

I would never have dreamt of asking my parents to look after my children full-time - and frankly I wouldn’t have wanted them to - but it’s just mind-boggling to think that if they had, it would have been equivalent to giving us about £120,000.

Smittenkitchen · 17/04/2026 12:49

Katypp · 17/04/2026 08:02

I know houses are more expensive now. I would not deny that. But i think societal and lifestyle changes and expectations are at play now too.
I bought my first house with my now exh when we were 20. At that point, we had both been working for two years and we both lived at home until we were married at 21. We both ran small cars, but once we were engaged, every penny went on saving the deposit for the two-bedroom terraced house. No holidays, no new clothes, no eating out or takeaways, no days out. We both saved half our salary. This route was fairly standard in my group.
You don't really see this now. The more usual route to home ownership seems to be gap year, go to uni, meet someone, move in together, have children, big wedding and then look to buy.
So whereas my generation were on the property ladder when we had relatively few expenses, today's FTBs have often been spending a fortune on rent and have childcare expenses as they try to save. Because they already have children they need bigger homes than we did for our first home. They are entering the housing market ar what used to be a second or even third rung up the ladder.
Lufestyle expectations are also higher, with a general 'I work hard so should be able to afford x, y or z' attidude. The saving for a deposit comes from a smaller pool. On TV recently, i saw a family stuck in Dubai bemoaning they had to spend money they had been saving for a house deposit 'for years' to get back home. They were on holiday in Dubai fgs!
On here recently. I saw a poster say ut was 'a shame' that the op had to live in a three-bed semi with a family. I was brought up in such a house, they were perfectly standard family homes but now they are not good enough apparently.
In conclusion, yes houses are more expensive but creeping ligestyle changes bear a big part of the affordability issue.

Edited

Surely people are having kids considerably later, on average. So if they are trying to save to buy after having had kids it is because they haven't been able to get on the housing ladder before then.

Urgentbiscuitrequired · 17/04/2026 12:58

Wow, lengthy rant there. Thank God for AI.

No GPs don't have to do any caring duties. Whilst my Dad was going through cancer I was more than happy to support him even though I had an existing heavy burden of a disabled child needing 24/care when not at school and a FT job. I was even willing to provide hands on care whilst working id need be. He has been there for emergencies when we needed him and was a constant feature in his grandkids lives.

My partners parents, who barely make the effort to even see the kids outside of birthdays, not so. Not because I'm vindictive - we will still help if the are in the shit, unlike them - but not to the extent of my parents (who have offered some support, but not loads) because we have a lot of responsibility and little free time, so we can only give it to those that truly deserve it and we have a close connection to.

Just be mindful you reap what you sow.

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 13:41

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 12:08

Paid childcare? No its not help, its a service that costs (a lot!) of money. Family or friends providing childcare, with no money changing hands is help. As is other stuff like washing, cleaning, cooking and so on.

So all domestic stuff lol.

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 13:43

Smittenkitchen · 17/04/2026 12:49

Surely people are having kids considerably later, on average. So if they are trying to save to buy after having had kids it is because they haven't been able to get on the housing ladder before then.

Average age for a first baby is 29.4 years.

I suppose some of the difference is that a lot more people are in education longer. When I bought first property at 21 I had 5 years work and saving under my belt. Some people haven't even had a job at all by that age

My parents generation ( boomers) worked from age 14/15 so by the time they married in early 20s they had done nearly a decades work beforehand.

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 14:08

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 13:41

So all domestic stuff lol.

Well yes. I didn’t state that this needs to be grandmothers though. Equally could be a grandad. Why try to paint me as a misogynist?

Smittenkitchen · 17/04/2026 14:19

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 13:43

Average age for a first baby is 29.4 years.

I suppose some of the difference is that a lot more people are in education longer. When I bought first property at 21 I had 5 years work and saving under my belt. Some people haven't even had a job at all by that age

My parents generation ( boomers) worked from age 14/15 so by the time they married in early 20s they had done nearly a decades work beforehand.

Edited

I wonder what the average age for first birth was in the time period you were referencing then?

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 16:15

Everanewbie · 17/04/2026 14:08

Well yes. I didn’t state that this needs to be grandmothers though. Equally could be a grandad. Why try to paint me as a misogynist?

Like where did I paint you as anything. ? I merely asked how a grandparent is " helpful" and you came out with domestic stuff

Thechaseison71 · 17/04/2026 16:17

Smittenkitchen · 17/04/2026 14:19

I wonder what the average age for first birth was in the time period you were referencing then?

Which one?

1971: about 23–24 years old (around ~23.7 on average)
1991: about 25–26 years old (around ~25.5–25.8)

Katypp · 17/04/2026 18:04

Fair play but I don't think your situation was typical, as backed up by statistics.

Yes and no. Although more mothers work now than in the 1990s, I wonder how many of them are part-time workers compared to then? As i said upthread, flexible part-time work didn't really exist in the 90s. You worked the hours your company wanted, which did not neccessarily fit in with what worked for you. Women sometimes had no choice but give up work. There was no flexibility, no school hours working and far fewer nurseries with no subsidies.

bigboykitty · 17/04/2026 18:06

Katypp · 17/04/2026 18:04

Fair play but I don't think your situation was typical, as backed up by statistics.

Yes and no. Although more mothers work now than in the 1990s, I wonder how many of them are part-time workers compared to then? As i said upthread, flexible part-time work didn't really exist in the 90s. You worked the hours your company wanted, which did not neccessarily fit in with what worked for you. Women sometimes had no choice but give up work. There was no flexibility, no school hours working and far fewer nurseries with no subsidies.

As always on these matters, you're just in denial of the economic facts and making sweeping generalisations based on your own very limited anecdotal evidence.

Katypp · 17/04/2026 19:50

bigboykitty · 17/04/2026 18:06

As always on these matters, you're just in denial of the economic facts and making sweeping generalisations based on your own very limited anecdotal evidence.

What are the economic facts though?
I wondered out loud, that's all.
Give me some actual facts then.

ThatFairy · 17/04/2026 21:30

BlackRowan · 17/04/2026 10:38

Do you realise how expensive childcare is now?

bog standard nursery in london is costing 2000 a month for full time 5 days. Not a fancy nursery but a standard one. Childminder very slightly cheaper.
just 5 years ago that same nursery was 1300 pcm for same hours.

”free hours” are making a small dent in that cost because of they way they are costed.

do you think anyone could have predicted that?

nevermind the soaring mortgages cost thanks to Liz Truss stupidity

That's crazy ! No I didn't know it was this bad. But I see this a lot people struggling to pay extortionate nursery fees and I do think is the mother really much better off working ?