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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
OVienna · 15/04/2026 18:47

Pulling the ladder up behind yourself is never a good look. @ValhallaCalling

Yup, so much this.

I was also raised by maternal grandmother, who lived with us, as I said upthread. My mother came home from work to dinner on the table every night, a clean house, and her child looked after. Plus a financial backstop. My mother did things for my grandmother (driving around, appointments) but it was 100% a life she chose and misses now.

There are lots of reasons why one's parents might not be able to offer the same support they had from their own parents. My parents live across the Atlantic Ocean and even if they were around, I would not want the same arrangement they had. And there are, of course, entitled people who expect their parents to prop up their lifestyle.

My point is to have no self-awareness that you might have benefitted from things not on offer to your child, watching them struggle in many cases, and then take the view 'thems the breaks, SO WHAT if I had it easier' isn't loving. It's frankly disgusting.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 18:58

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 17:21

I saw my grandmother once every couple of years (different country in at a time where travel wasn't cheap) and I still cared about her. A teen that feels so little unless you put in hours of unpaid labour each week clearly isn't worth the effort.

Edited

I’m sure they’ll feel the same about you. Why would they put the effort in with you when you don’t put it in with them?

Like so many you are missing the point that children are separate people to their parents. It isn’t their parents’ job to facilitate your relationship with your grandchildren to fit your demands for how it should be. You need to build a relationship with your grandchildren as individuals if you want to have one. If you don’t want to, then don’t bother to do so, but don’t complain that they don’t have any emotional connection to you and try to blame them for that when it was entirely the result of your own choices.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 19:00

OVienna · 15/04/2026 15:01

@ProjectHailMary i see now yiu probably didnt see my earlier post so wouldnt have seen what Id said prevously...i sn see why i wssnt clear.

Don’t worry, just a mutual misunderstanding amongst all of the crazy posts from people who seem to be suffering from borderline sociopathy! My fault, I should have read what you’d written more carefully. 💐

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 19:09

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:12

Ah the old chuck some "nuanced" mud in the water and claim "empathy" because the simplicity of the truth is a bit confronting ploy.

No. No, I don't thnk we will.

Everything already asked and answered.

You’re a funny old fish aren’t you?

If being rude and shouty and refusing to engage in good faith was a way to win arguments then Donald Trump would be presid — ah. Fuck. Guess you must be right 😂

CautiousLurker2 · 15/04/2026 19:41

Bluedenimdoglover · 15/04/2026 15:22

Really people, these arguments are never going to be resolved. Let's just accept the reality of life today:
Some grandparents love looking after their grand children;
Some grandparents resent looking after their grandchildren but are too afraid of upsetting their own offspring to object;
Some grandparents will not look after their grandchildren (their reasons are immaterial, here);
Some grandparents would love to have their grandchildren close enough to provide child care;
Some daughters/sons will use their children as weapons to get the childcare they want;
Some daughters/sons would love to have grandparents to provide childcare.
There it is - no-one on this planet can resolve all the differences that arise within families. Just accept that everyone is different and you can't change people, they can only change themselves.

Gosh. That’s a bit sensible. And nuanced.

Totally agree though!

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 19:41

PlayingDevilsAdvocateisinteresting · 15/04/2026 06:20

@UraniumFlowerpot, Part of your response to the OP was:

"But often grandparents express a sense of entitlement to family visits, and days out, may have quite specific ideas of what family time should look like and how children should behave. Those expectations concrete work for the parents, and a sense that instead of helping me with the existing challenges of raising kids you’re actually adding more."

I just want to ask you how often is often?

I am an OAP, and a grandparent, so I have been around for quite a few years. I am not telling you that because I claim to be an expert at either being a parent, or a grandparent, I am just pointing out that unless I was a hermit, which I wasn't, I can think of only one grandparent - who happened to be the grandmother, not the grandfather - who actually behaved anywhere close to your description.

Of course, if we make our assumptions based on 'information' garnered on websites, like Mumsnet (I am not dissing Mumsnet, I think it is a brilliant resource, as well as a way to relax at the end of the day, after I have wordled, and before picking up my latest novel), or the DM etc. rather than our real life observations and experiences, then I believe that the truth will probably be far removed from the stories in many publications.

I am not accusing you, Flowerpot, of only getting your information from such places as the ones I mentioned above, but I would find it interesting to know whether you are actually exaggerating about how often you are personally aware of such behaviour by many grandparents, or if you could give some general background - obviously not any that in any likelood could lead back to you - that can help explain why our experiences may be so different?

My own grandmother on one side was like this, for example. Visiting her as kids was tough because we couldn’t just behave like kids. Down to little things like expecting us to wear dresses. Very critical of my mum. It was hard work. Other three GPs more easy going and we had an ok relationship, none were especially involved in our lives.

Otherwise I can bring to mind one aunt, my sister’s MIL and FIL, two close friends parents who all would fit within the description I gave. Not bad people overall but not terribly flexible either so that visiting them seems to cause a lot of stress for the parents (middle generation) and grandchildren yet if those visits were reduced there would be all kinds of upset. I also used to work with elderly people (obviously well past being able to offer childcare) and heard a lot of complaints that the grandkids never visit but also the grandkids are badly behaved they’re brought up wrong these days etc and would privately think yeah I might not bring kids to visit much either if that’s the welcome I could expect for them!

I can also think of several examples of GPs (including my own parents) who have put thought and effort into making visits to them fun and relaxing for everyone. So by no means are all GPs difficult to keep a relationship with, but in my experience it’s not a rare thing either.

Since personalities tend to run in families to some extent, I wonder how often the extreme version of the “entitled dictator daughter” the OP describes is paired with a similarly entitled and demanding GP. Surely not every time, but a correlation seems plausible.

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 20:46

Newnameagainn · 15/04/2026 17:33

There are four generations currently going strong in my family. (My grandparents are 90 something admittedly, but not 110)

Yes, it's possible for this to happen when people have kids younger but it's not really the norm and it's not what the term is referring to.

"Sandwich generation" refers to parents looking after young kids and ageing parents. With responsibilities both ways. Even if a grandparent is looking after their own parents who are aged 90, they wont be the parents of young primary or school age children at the same time will they? therefore, there is no immediate and legal responsibility directly below them. They might help out with their own grandchildren but helping out is not the same as looking after children 24/7 whilst also caring for elderly relative. Therefore, for grandparents looking after even older parents there is no "sandwich" because they dont have a parental responsibility for young children and their adult children will be grown up by then

rainingsnoring · 15/04/2026 20:56

Flowersforyourchocolateprettyplease · 15/04/2026 12:58

No she doesn't, weird that's your take.

No she doesn't what? Your comment makes no sense.

theonlygirl · 15/04/2026 21:01

Beautifully said OP.

TheSocialHermit · 15/04/2026 21:13

Maray1967 · 15/04/2026 06:58

This is my view. We never expected or ask for childcare as they lived 90 minutes drive away but WE were expected to visit - and to schedule those visits around their social lives with their friends. Weekends with their friends came first. If we invited them to us we were often told that they might be away with X&Y that weekend. The irony is that their main friends would drop them like a hot potato as they always prioritised their DGC.

And - they had one day a week help from a parent the generation before even when one of them was a SAHP.

My situation currently - they like to give their friends the impression that they’re very involved in their grandchildren’s lives. In reality, they only want to see them when they have no other plans that weekend.

TiredDinosaur · 15/04/2026 21:16

TheSocialHermit · 15/04/2026 21:13

My situation currently - they like to give their friends the impression that they’re very involved in their grandchildren’s lives. In reality, they only want to see them when they have no other plans that weekend.

I imagine this is exactly what OP is like

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 21:48

beAsensible1 · 15/04/2026 16:06

I have watched various friends run their parents ragged with childcare in the younger years, nursery fees, club fees, school runs. and still they gripe on about never get any help. its frankly galling.

I think the issue isn't ad hoc baby sitting most GPs would love that, it's the idea of regular childcare, like a job often when GPs themselves are still working irony just recently retired. then complain the "mum looks ill, mum looks tired" but never making the correlation between the two.

It takes all the enjoyment out of the experience. Also the refusal to build a village with friends or cousins and siblings who are similar age who also have children. which makes more sense than constantly asking the 70 year olds. splitting summer holidays with your friends or school mums who also have children, so you can alternate annual leave usage and just have all the kids round a one house and send packed lunches.

I'm just back from the gym. At the Active for Life class which is for people who have had to regain fitness following injuries, operations or illnesses, one woman remarked that she's going to lose a chunk of her free time through doing childcare...for her granddaughter's child.

Hailstoness · 15/04/2026 21:52

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 21:48

I'm just back from the gym. At the Active for Life class which is for people who have had to regain fitness following injuries, operations or illnesses, one woman remarked that she's going to lose a chunk of her free time through doing childcare...for her granddaughter's child.

Edited

Bloody hell....for her great geandchild🙄there really is no escape for some poor women.

Well done for going to an exercise class, not easy to get back into it during recovery.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 22:06

RawBloomers · 15/04/2026 17:24

The childcare a parent is doing when they visit a grandparent is that same labour that a grandparent does when they do childcare. And with it they are doing the travel with those children, which is also labour. Normally harder labour labour than staying at home with their children is.

It really isn't. I've done both things. My in-laws lived 2.5 hours away. We went to stay with them for a weekend every six weeks, and it was absolutely fine. The travel was planned to fit their ages and needs at the time, but was never a drama.
I'd subtly give the house a quick check over for any fragile/dangerous items not long after we arrived, and from that point, relaxed into it and enjoyed my kids being entertained by the people who loved them most, after us.

I love my own grandchildren in the same way. I love doing occasional full day childcare and/or sleepovers. But it's absolutely knackering, and keeping then safe feels like much more of a responsibility, because they're someone else's children. And because I'm still a bit of a novelty, entertaining them is pretty full on!

And of course when we were visiting the in-laws, I was in my 30s. Now I'm 70.

rainingsnoring · 15/04/2026 22:12

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 21:48

I'm just back from the gym. At the Active for Life class which is for people who have had to regain fitness following injuries, operations or illnesses, one woman remarked that she's going to lose a chunk of her free time through doing childcare...for her granddaughter's child.

Edited

Why was this unwell, elderly woman unable to say no to her grand daughter?

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 22:37

rainingsnoring · 15/04/2026 22:12

Why was this unwell, elderly woman unable to say no to her grand daughter?

I can't remember the precise conversation, but as best as I can recall, the granddaughter had said something along the lines of "You will be able to look after the one year old so that I can go back to work, won't you...?"

I'll add that everyone at our class is mobile, if you know what I mean, but we're all working on strengthening our areas of weakness.

I don't know her age, but I think she's older than 70. (I'm nearly 66 and one of the younger people in the class.)

I had the impression that she didn't want to cause offence or upset. I'm wondering what the granddaughter would do if she didn't have her grandmother.

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 22:48

Hailstoness · 15/04/2026 21:52

Bloody hell....for her great geandchild🙄there really is no escape for some poor women.

Well done for going to an exercise class, not easy to get back into it during recovery.

Or maybe she wants to do it? My gran used to repeatedly ask if she could look after my twins to help out. She was absolutely besotted with them. She was also 89 when they were born and almost blind so absolutely NO WAY she'd have been able to look after them safely. But she WANTED to. We used to visit her a lot thiugh bless her.

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 22:54

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 22:48

Or maybe she wants to do it? My gran used to repeatedly ask if she could look after my twins to help out. She was absolutely besotted with them. She was also 89 when they were born and almost blind so absolutely NO WAY she'd have been able to look after them safely. But she WANTED to. We used to visit her a lot thiugh bless her.

Maybe she does want to. However, her tone was somewhat rueful. She obviously loves the grandchild, there's no doubt about that.

ScarlettSarah · 15/04/2026 23:00

For what it's worth, in my family, we help one another. It's not much of a family if people don't pitch in when someone is in need, and of course that works every way and applies to both men and women. As a mother, I could never leave my children to struggle with parenting challenges without helping, and the same for my DH. So long as we were able to help, we would. There is something fundamentally broken and pathologically selfish in those that ditch their own kids to raise the next generation alone. That's not love. It's just weird behaviour. Similarly I could never ditch my parents in their old age. People are so selfish in this society, honestly. So I think you're wrong, from the POV that those grandmothers are not showing family love or loyalty to their own children and grandchildren so I'm not sure why they would expect to play happy families. But I agree that the same expectations should be put on men as on women.

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 23:03

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MyOtherProfile · 15/04/2026 23:08

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 11:38

176 likes/agreements so far. Lovely :) haven''t bothered reading any replies since page 2, because as I said then there is no rational or reasonable argument that can be made against what I said and everything was covered in the original post.

No point in letting those who are deliberately lying, or grossly entitled, get a rise from me - so I won't :)

The reason for posting was simple - you're not getting away with abusing your mothers like this, decent people see through you and everyone around you is thinking more or less what I am thinking whenever you start to flap your entitled gums.

And I want you to know that.

I am delighted to see such overwhelming support for my commonsense, fair and reasonable post.

It seems the majority sees through the dictator daughters' manipulative emotional blackmail and attempts to make false comparisons as just what it is - vicious coercion dressed up as sentiment.

Good. Attached a screenshot of the upvotes, let's see if it gets through.

Ciao - and thanks for all the support. Might check back tomorrow to see if the likes continue to climb :)

Edited

As if! Gemini or copilot?

fortysumfing · 15/04/2026 23:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

This is just a deliberate rage bait post or you’re not in your right mind. Either way, I’m starting to feel sorry for you.

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 23:11

Yeah nice one OP. You really showed those dictator daughters. And obviously there could be no reasonable or rational rebuke to your wisdom. We all bow down to your superiority. Well done. Congratulations. Also loads of likes. Yippee. How exciting for you.

ScarlettSarah · 15/04/2026 23:13

It's giving... Donald Trump. Somewhat unhinged.

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 23:16

I know it is a bit late for this suggestion for you OP but maybe if you'd set boundaries and raised your DD with empathy and care you wouldn't have raised a 'dictator daughter'.