Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 15/04/2026 17:18

Zov · 15/04/2026 17:06

The whole thread is about women using granny to babysit her children while she's at work, but not being faffed to visit her if she says NO to babysitting.

Do keep up!

Yes, and a part of that is when grandparents expect the visits to occur at their house (babysitting or not). Therefore my post IS relevant - because to the parents a visit is both childcare for them, in a harder environment. Ergo "not being faffed".

nixon1976 · 15/04/2026 17:19

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 17:11

Because I think its teens and upwards where you'll see how much your children actually give a shit about your parents and how much they turned up for the fiver and because they were yoo young to say no.

Don't quite see your point but I believe mine still stands - we visited my parents when possible, and vice versa. They used to be a couple of hours away, now they are a continent away. My kids have a great relationship with them and value the time spent with them. Zero condition on whether my mother (or father) babysat for them when they were little.

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 17:21

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 17:11

Because I think its teens and upwards where you'll see how much your children actually give a shit about your parents and how much they turned up for the fiver and because they were yoo young to say no.

I saw my grandmother once every couple of years (different country in at a time where travel wasn't cheap) and I still cared about her. A teen that feels so little unless you put in hours of unpaid labour each week clearly isn't worth the effort.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 17:22

Hallamule · 15/04/2026 17:21

I saw my grandmother once every couple of years (different country in at a time where travel wasn't cheap) and I still cared about her. A teen that feels so little unless you put in hours of unpaid labour each week clearly isn't worth the effort.

Edited

How much did you make an effort to see her more often as you become a teen and then an adult?

RawBloomers · 15/04/2026 17:24

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:47

And you visiting your mother is NOT the same 'labour' as your mother (often an older lady) looking after YOUR kids FFS! 😂

The childcare a parent is doing when they visit a grandparent is that same labour that a grandparent does when they do childcare. And with it they are doing the travel with those children, which is also labour. Normally harder labour labour than staying at home with their children is.

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 17:29

SardinesOnButteredToast · 15/04/2026 07:47

So, if I understood right, for you it's not so much about expecting childcare as that you feel your parents should sell the family home and transfer the money to you?

Haha I’m not sure how you concluded that! I was putting forward that it is understandable, with a modest amount of empathy, how someone who is struggling practically and financially could find it emotionally challenging when their closest relatives make choices that might, in that stressed state, appear selfish. If my best friend won the lottery but still expected to split the bill at dinner I’d surely notice that choice while still not claiming that she “owes” me anything. Kind of similar but of course within families emotions often run extra high.

Since you’ve implied that I’m personally grabby, let me share a little of our family dynamic. My parents are too old / ill to look after young kids alone for extended periods. I now live too far away anyhow but my siblings and nieces / nephews visit them fairly often. It’s a joy to visit my parents. You’ll immediately be handed a coffee/tea/wine depending on the time of day and regularly supplied with good food throughout. “No, no you sit down you’ve had a busy week”. They’re interesting to talk to and very involved in village life so always have some story to tell. It’s wholesome and restful. The baby gets cuddles, the toddler is entertained by granddad being silly, the 5yo plays on the trampoline that they bought specifically for him. Mum and dad get to actually sit and finish that cup of tea. And when you try to thank them they say oh no it’s wonderful that you made the time to visit I know how busy you are we love to see you all. Regarding money it’s similar. No major help with house deposit or whatever. My dad likes to dabble in premium bonds and when he’s had a win that’s an excuse to send us all something like ~£100 because “you deserve a treat”. They’ll pay for days out occasionally. Yes they still have their huge house, staying there as long as health allows, they’re also very generous with hosting because of course none of the next generation could afford so much space. Afaik none of us have asked for significant money from them, certainly no suggestion of selling up or early inheritance. We’ve all been lucky enough to do quite well in our careers so far, though of course costs are also high and it can occasionally be tight. We adult kids have discussed how much support we can offer as they get older and less able. They have emphasized that we’re not to compromise our own lives and they don’t expect any care from us. We will follow their example and give as much as we reasonably can, gladly.

The point of all that is to say that I think attitude and relationship and genuine care for one another matters far more than the exact amount of money or practical help changing hands. The attitude of “you made your choices now you have to deal with them don’t expect anything from us”
is not helpful in relationships. Just like “the only point of you is to provide free childcare” isn’t helpful. I’m happy my parents can take nice holidays while they’re still able. I’m sure that if I ever mention struggling for money they’ll ask if they can help at all, and I would generally resist any such help that would deprive them. But if I shared a serious money worry with them and they brushed it away with “stop complaining, you can’t expect handouts, life is hard for everyone” and then immediately started taking about whether they should go next to Hawaii or South Africa… yeah I imagine that could sting!

Newnameagainn · 15/04/2026 17:33

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 16:40

but the sandwich generation is real

The sandwich generation refers to parents looking after their own young kids AND elderly parents. It's not about great grandparents. I dont know anyone whose grandparents are looking after their parents- that would make them about 110 years old

There are four generations currently going strong in my family. (My grandparents are 90 something admittedly, but not 110)

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 17:33

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 17:29

Haha I’m not sure how you concluded that! I was putting forward that it is understandable, with a modest amount of empathy, how someone who is struggling practically and financially could find it emotionally challenging when their closest relatives make choices that might, in that stressed state, appear selfish. If my best friend won the lottery but still expected to split the bill at dinner I’d surely notice that choice while still not claiming that she “owes” me anything. Kind of similar but of course within families emotions often run extra high.

Since you’ve implied that I’m personally grabby, let me share a little of our family dynamic. My parents are too old / ill to look after young kids alone for extended periods. I now live too far away anyhow but my siblings and nieces / nephews visit them fairly often. It’s a joy to visit my parents. You’ll immediately be handed a coffee/tea/wine depending on the time of day and regularly supplied with good food throughout. “No, no you sit down you’ve had a busy week”. They’re interesting to talk to and very involved in village life so always have some story to tell. It’s wholesome and restful. The baby gets cuddles, the toddler is entertained by granddad being silly, the 5yo plays on the trampoline that they bought specifically for him. Mum and dad get to actually sit and finish that cup of tea. And when you try to thank them they say oh no it’s wonderful that you made the time to visit I know how busy you are we love to see you all. Regarding money it’s similar. No major help with house deposit or whatever. My dad likes to dabble in premium bonds and when he’s had a win that’s an excuse to send us all something like ~£100 because “you deserve a treat”. They’ll pay for days out occasionally. Yes they still have their huge house, staying there as long as health allows, they’re also very generous with hosting because of course none of the next generation could afford so much space. Afaik none of us have asked for significant money from them, certainly no suggestion of selling up or early inheritance. We’ve all been lucky enough to do quite well in our careers so far, though of course costs are also high and it can occasionally be tight. We adult kids have discussed how much support we can offer as they get older and less able. They have emphasized that we’re not to compromise our own lives and they don’t expect any care from us. We will follow their example and give as much as we reasonably can, gladly.

The point of all that is to say that I think attitude and relationship and genuine care for one another matters far more than the exact amount of money or practical help changing hands. The attitude of “you made your choices now you have to deal with them don’t expect anything from us”
is not helpful in relationships. Just like “the only point of you is to provide free childcare” isn’t helpful. I’m happy my parents can take nice holidays while they’re still able. I’m sure that if I ever mention struggling for money they’ll ask if they can help at all, and I would generally resist any such help that would deprive them. But if I shared a serious money worry with them and they brushed it away with “stop complaining, you can’t expect handouts, life is hard for everyone” and then immediately started taking about whether they should go next to Hawaii or South Africa… yeah I imagine that could sting!

Your parents and - your relationship with them - sound lovely.

ValhallaCalling · 15/04/2026 17:36

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:46

Well if the OP is soooo horrible, then why does her DD want her to look after her children? (The OP's grandchildren?)

She's right. Many women want to use granny as a free babysitter but CBA to actually properly visit her, 'just because,' or take her out for a meal or an afternoon out. Many older women are just used as babysitters, and if they refuse, they don't get to see the grandchildren. Awful emotional blackmail and manipulation.

And I have no skin in the game, because I have no grandchildren, and I get on well with my DC, and we do things together/go places together. They don't avoid me and treat me as an inconvenience as some posters on here appear to do with THEIR mothers. How incredibly sad and depressing. Sad

@Youlittlenightmare I am curious to know how many 'likes' and 'agrees' you have now! Grin

They probably want her help because they can't afford childcare or can't get childcare at the time they need it because nurseries have long waiting lists. Our nursery didn't have availability on one of the days we needed but work let us change our working days to accommodate, not everyone is so lucky.

I was practically raised by my grandparents, I spent more time at their house than at home as my housewife grandmother looked after me while mum worked l, she never paid a penny for nursery fees while I spend 1k a month. It would be HUGELY hypocritical of her to refuse to look after my daughter so I can work if she was retired and able to look after her and was asked. Pulling the ladder up behind yourself is never a good look.

It's not blackmail that grandparents who don't provide childcare don't get to see their grandchildren much. My mum complains that my daughters grandad gets real quality time with her every week and she doesn't, the difference is ofc I don't need to be there to facilitate the quality time between my daughter and her grandad because he picks her up from nursery and his time unsupervised every week. I get one day a week to visit family, I can't visit her every week as I have to make sure my daughter gets to see her great grandparents on both sides and my dad too (divorced parents) and I can only do one visit a day around nap time, eating etc. that means she's on a rota with 3 other sets of family members so she sees her once a month. If she wants quality time every single week like grandad gets then she'll need to do it on her own time, not mine, and that means providing childcare. She could pay forward all the help she got raising me and save me a few quid in the process! She won't though, and I wouldn't want her to actually. So tough shit.

fortysumfing · 15/04/2026 17:40

@Youlittlenightmare I honestly believe it’s just a ‘boomer’ thing of not wanting to be a part of the ‘village’ that brings up children, and it will one-day pass.

Parents of today do so much more with their children than the previous generation. Society has changed, parents are now responsible for keeping their children entertained 24/7 (activities constantly etc..), for the previous generation they simply had to open the front door and let the children out to play. Boomers (not all mind you) do not understand modern day parenting and this is why so many GPs (again not all) opt-out of helping, they still believe parenting is as easy as they had it.

These views will pass though, as when the current parents become GPs they will fully understand how much it takes to be a good parent in the modern day and will go back to providing the ‘village’, much needed love and support for their adult children raising their grandchildren.

sunshinestar1986 · 15/04/2026 17:43

wfhwfh · 15/04/2026 11:36

I largely agree with what you say.

However, I disagree that it is irrelevant if a grandmother had support herself with raising her children.

My mother was always very clear with us that she would not provide regular childcare and I fully agree with her position. She provides the same level of occasional babysitting that my own grandmother did for me. She owes me nothing more.

However, if my own grandmother had provided childcare for us whilst she worked and my mother then refused to do the same for her own children, I would not feel the same respect for her position.

I do think family sacrifices should be “paid on” in future. So I think the parents today who benefit from free grandparent childcare SHOULD be willing to provide the same to their own children in future. And if they are not - why are they taking this from their own parents? I think this is hugely disrespectful to the grandparent’s sacrifice which - i imagine in most circumstances - was made just as much for the grandchild’s benefit as the child’s.

Maybe her grandmother was in a position to do so and wanted to?

ForCosyLion · 15/04/2026 17:48

My sister had three under three (the youngest two were twins) and no spare bedroom. She lived 2.5 - 6 hours' drive away from our late DPs, depending on traffic. It was difficult to pack up all three and go down to our DPs for a weekend, but having them to visit involved bedroom-shuffling. Sis worked a mix of none, part and full-time in those years.

Here's the thing: Our late DPs were not badly off in retirement AT ALL. There was no reason why they couldn't go up to my sister's town and stay in a nearby hotel for a week, going round for the afternoons or evenings, maybe taking the family out for a meal, taking the kids out. Would have worked especially well in the school hols. Could have done something not too expensive, like a Premier Lodge. But they absolutely would not hear of staying in a hotel. It's a pity, because they would have seen the GC more. Sis was absolutely run off her feet, and it would have been a way for the GPs and GCs to see each other without adding to sis's burden.

But no, the GPs wanted what they wanted, the way they wanted it. For some reason, family staying in hotels nearby instead of actually WITH the relatives was anathema to our family system, and they just could not adjust to such a thing. It was silly.

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 17:54

fortysumfing · 15/04/2026 17:40

@Youlittlenightmare I honestly believe it’s just a ‘boomer’ thing of not wanting to be a part of the ‘village’ that brings up children, and it will one-day pass.

Parents of today do so much more with their children than the previous generation. Society has changed, parents are now responsible for keeping their children entertained 24/7 (activities constantly etc..), for the previous generation they simply had to open the front door and let the children out to play. Boomers (not all mind you) do not understand modern day parenting and this is why so many GPs (again not all) opt-out of helping, they still believe parenting is as easy as they had it.

These views will pass though, as when the current parents become GPs they will fully understand how much it takes to be a good parent in the modern day and will go back to providing the ‘village’, much needed love and support for their adult children raising their grandchildren.

I expect " the modern day" will have changed again by then

fortysumfing · 15/04/2026 18:00

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 17:54

I expect " the modern day" will have changed again by then

Absolutely but it’ll never go back to just opening the front door to let the kids out to play - parenting job done!

Hopefully the parenting role will relax it bit though, though I doubt it. I’ll be in-hand to help that’s for sure. It’s too hard without support when the children are small. I’m well past that stage now but I’ll always remember being resentful of the lack of ‘village’ and I’d never do that to my wonderful children.

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 18:01

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/04/2026 12:38

So much ageism and misogyny on this thread 😞

'Bloody boomer grandmas, know your place'

🙄

OP was deliberately provocative and goady though. Her language about younger women was distasteful and demeaning e.g. 'absolute multitude of bratty demanding dictator daughters' and her obviously stratospheric opinion of herself and her arguments is puerile to say the least.

fortysumfing · 15/04/2026 18:02

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 18:01

OP was deliberately provocative and goady though. Her language about younger women was distasteful and demeaning e.g. 'absolute multitude of bratty demanding dictator daughters' and her obviously stratospheric opinion of herself and her arguments is puerile to say the least.

OP is one arrogant boomer!

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 18:04

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 18:01

OP was deliberately provocative and goady though. Her language about younger women was distasteful and demeaning e.g. 'absolute multitude of bratty demanding dictator daughters' and her obviously stratospheric opinion of herself and her arguments is puerile to say the least.

Exactly. Ageist and misogynistic!

fortysumfing · 15/04/2026 18:07

@Youlittlenightmare I wish there was a ‘dislike’ reaction, I’m pretty sure it would smash the ‘likes’ you are currently gloating about!

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 18:11

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 16:27

Why do you consider parents time poor but not the grandparents?

Is that a trick question? If both parents are working and looking after children and grandparents are retired with no caring responsibilities, of course it is much more likely that the parents will be time-poor than the grandparents.

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 18:15

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 18:11

Is that a trick question? If both parents are working and looking after children and grandparents are retired with no caring responsibilities, of course it is much more likely that the parents will be time-poor than the grandparents.

And if the grandparents are working full time. ? And looking after elderly parents

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 18:17

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 18:15

And if the grandparents are working full time. ? And looking after elderly parents

Well if theyre working full time then they wont be asked to look after grandkids one day a week will they?

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 15/04/2026 18:19

thepariscrimefiles · 15/04/2026 18:01

OP was deliberately provocative and goady though. Her language about younger women was distasteful and demeaning e.g. 'absolute multitude of bratty demanding dictator daughters' and her obviously stratospheric opinion of herself and her arguments is puerile to say the least.

Yes, there are certainly debates to be had about the roles of men and women in childcare at all ages, but this thread isn't one of them. It was a spiteful rant, to provoke a reaction.

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 18:25

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 18:17

Well if theyre working full time then they wont be asked to look after grandkids one day a week will they?

Depends on work hours
Friend of.mine workls Weds to Sun. Daughter wanted childcare mon and Tues. If she had agreed when would be Her time off

Not everyone works 9-5 Mon to fri you know

wfhwfh · 15/04/2026 18:27

sunshinestar1986 · 15/04/2026 17:43

Maybe her grandmother was in a position to do so and wanted to?

You are right that there may be reasons why someone who has benefited from free childcare from their own mother may not be in a position to do the same for those same children once they are the parents.

My issue was with the OP saying it was “irrelevant”. I disagree. If you believe in the “it takes a village” system then you have to be willing to pay in when you have capacity as well as take out when you need support.

If you dont believe in that sort of moral/social contract (and, incidentally, I am not entirely sure that I do personally), then I dont think you should take out.

However, if you are in a position where you never truly have the capacity to pay back in, then that is quite different. I think this is what you are referring to - but it is not the point the OP was making.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 18:47

saraclara · 15/04/2026 16:42

When a parent is looking after their small child, they're "in the trenches and it's exhausting" and "of course being a SAHM is just like a working day, only harder"
When their mother, maybe three decades older, is looking after their small grandchild, it's "quality time building their relationship"

Are you saying that you genuinely don’t understand the difference between spending a couple of hours with a child sometimes and being their parent, providing for all of their physical and financial and emotional needs 24/7? Utterly ridiculous.