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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 16:12

saraclara · 15/04/2026 15:42

Yes. She said that childcare is work. Not ...that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour

Giving up one's retirement to do regular childcare for your grandchildren, often for 3-5 days a week, is hard work and a huge commitment. It's work, whatever pleasures might be gained along the way.

Spending time with ones grandchildren can, and usually is, something much more flexible, less tiring, and does not imply sole responsibility and commitment.

Who is actually looking after their grandchildren 5 days a week, though?

That is not a common situation.

The facts are that in the UK, most grandparents are not providing any childcare for their grandchildren.

Of those who are providing childcare, the more childcare that is being provided, the less the number of grandparents providing it becomes.

Over 60% of 2 year olds are in some kind of formal childcare.

That figure rises to over 90% for 3 and 4 year olds.

After that, children will be in school full time.

Spending time with ones grandchildren can, and usually is, something much more flexible, less tiring, and does not imply sole responsibility and commitment.

Are you talking about parents taking their children to visit grandparents here, or grandparents spending some one on one time with their grandchildren by essentially babysitting?

Families today very much do not have the luxury of time to commit to regular visits to grandparents’ homes. The reasons for why have already been discussed on the thread.

Regardless, it is impossible to separate out formal childcare from babysitting in these types of threads, because the kind of studies that are done into the numbers of grandparents who are providing childcare include good old fashioned babysitting as childcare.

Similarly, many grandparents also see babysitting as childcare, and expect their already time poor children to visit regularly to facilitate a relationship with their grandchildren, with zero effort being made on their part.

If you want a relationship with your grandchildren, you need to put some kind of effort into it.

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 16:14

saraclara · 15/04/2026 15:50

Mumsnet is full of women complaining about their mothers in law (and sometimes mothers)
Surely it's only fair and reasonable that the older generation should be allowed to have somewhere to moan about their DILs (and sometimes daughters)?

Do you seriously think that every adult DIL and daughter is saintly, and every MIL and mother always wrong? Because that really isn't the case. We're none of us perfect.

Relationships are complex, and anyone struggling with one is allowed somewhere to vent.

Edited

Do you seriously think that every adult DIL and daughter is saintly, and every MIL and mother always wrong? Because that really isn't the case. We're none of us perfect.

Did I say that?

beAsensible1 · 15/04/2026 16:17

also if you want or expect repeat childcare from a GP that is a discussion to be had BEFORE you have children and unless you are paying expect that it could change or their health could act or any other life circumstances

Forthesteps · 15/04/2026 16:22

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 03:27

It's about a plethora of threads demanding that women act as unpaid servants for their adult children, not one in particular, I see this illogical argument trotted out a lot on these demanding hateful threads.

Edited

And of course the inevitable "Well everything is shit because boomers, they owe us, do it or be abandoned in your old age". And " Well who brought them up then? Aha, gotcha!" triumphant response to the mildest pushback.
Don't have grandkids, no skin in game. But I see it all around me.
Ageist shite is what it is.

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 16:27

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 16:12

Who is actually looking after their grandchildren 5 days a week, though?

That is not a common situation.

The facts are that in the UK, most grandparents are not providing any childcare for their grandchildren.

Of those who are providing childcare, the more childcare that is being provided, the less the number of grandparents providing it becomes.

Over 60% of 2 year olds are in some kind of formal childcare.

That figure rises to over 90% for 3 and 4 year olds.

After that, children will be in school full time.

Spending time with ones grandchildren can, and usually is, something much more flexible, less tiring, and does not imply sole responsibility and commitment.

Are you talking about parents taking their children to visit grandparents here, or grandparents spending some one on one time with their grandchildren by essentially babysitting?

Families today very much do not have the luxury of time to commit to regular visits to grandparents’ homes. The reasons for why have already been discussed on the thread.

Regardless, it is impossible to separate out formal childcare from babysitting in these types of threads, because the kind of studies that are done into the numbers of grandparents who are providing childcare include good old fashioned babysitting as childcare.

Similarly, many grandparents also see babysitting as childcare, and expect their already time poor children to visit regularly to facilitate a relationship with their grandchildren, with zero effort being made on their part.

If you want a relationship with your grandchildren, you need to put some kind of effort into it.

Edited

Why do you consider parents time poor but not the grandparents?

BlackRowan · 15/04/2026 16:28

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 12:30

Helping out ageing parents isn't really the same as looking after excitable, crying, messy, noisy young kids day after day to a schedule early morning till evening, taking to and fro to school and nursery, though

Quite. Young children are much more pleasant to look after. They shower you with love and look at the world with eyes full of appreciation and excitement.

much better experience than cantankerous old people

saraclara · 15/04/2026 16:30

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 16:14

Do you seriously think that every adult DIL and daughter is saintly, and every MIL and mother always wrong? Because that really isn't the case. We're none of us perfect.

Did I say that?

This is what you said. Automatically assuming that anyone on gransnet must be the one in the wrong

This reeks of the kind of thing you see over on Gransnet.
Thread after thread by some of the most unpleasant posters you have ever seen online, but none of them with any idea why their children don’t speak to them (apart from their controlling DIL, that is).

Anyone could easily post the same thing about Mumsnet, but with a different example following "...none of them with any idea why .."

I'm not on gransnet, but when I went over there a year or two back, I found their venting generally calmer, and carrying more hurt than anger. But any differences aren't really relevant. Everyone needs somewhere to vent, and none of us are always right or always wrong. Like I say, relationships are hard.

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 16:30

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 16:27

Why do you consider parents time poor but not the grandparents?

Is this a joke? Obviously people who are working and looking after children are going to be considerably more time poor than someone retired who only has themselves / their partner to look after.

Vaxtable · 15/04/2026 16:31

@Youlittlenightmare

interesting that you say that if now grandmothers had help from their parents it does not mean they should provide that help to their children, but then go on to say

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.. Because did they do the work and raise their children, or did their parents?

I do agree that it should not be given that grandparents should help out with childcare, but surely you can understand the feelings of adult children needing help, but it’s not forthcoming despite the fact those grandparents had help themselves.

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:31

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 12:43

My parents have never looked after my DC whilst I worked. Whilst another poster on here defending the OP has been clear on her thread that she relied on grandparents for childcare as she does not believe in childcare from outsiders. I think it is simply a case of selfish people have short memories to suit their lifestyle.

Well, why even respond to my post then if you don't expect your parents to be used for free childcare?

Baffling. I'm clearly not about YOU am I?

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:33

ValhallaCalling · 15/04/2026 12:42

This is clearly rage bait.

No sane person rants for pages about bully dictator daughters. I bet her daughter can't stand her and she's pissed she doesn't get to see her grand kids much as a result. I certainly wouldn't want to visit someone this hostile!

Tell me you expect your mother to do free babysitting for your children whilst you're at work, without telling me you expect your mother to do free babysitting for your children whilst you're at work. Wink

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 16:33

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:31

Well, why even respond to my post then if you don't expect your parents to be used for free childcare?

Baffling. I'm clearly not about YOU am I?

You suggested that posters that do not support the OP feel this way, I suggested the opposite may be true.

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:34

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:56

Sons almost never get criticised on MN - it's always the daughters/DILs in the line of fire.

100% this. ^

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 16:36

nixon1976 · 15/04/2026 15:33

This is one million percent nonsense. A grandmother does not have to babysit the kids, in any form, in order to have a meaningful relationship with them. Yes, it is precious and rewarding spending time on your own with them, but this can be achieved in a weekend a year or a day a month or whatever it is taking them to lunch/baking/watching their dance class. It's all fulfilling and valid.

Maybe for the grandparent. Maybe not for the child. The child might need more than that to feel any kind of attachment to the grandparent. You cant force them to feel it is enough to love you because that's all you can be bothered to do.

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:36

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:33

ultimately you will reap what you sow.

This.

I can’t believe the OP actually wrote in her opening post that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour, but that spending time with one’s mother/grandmother is just normal relationship maintenance 😂

She's right though. I 'can't believe' that you can't believe it. 😆

saraclara · 15/04/2026 16:38

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 16:27

Why do you consider parents time poor but not the grandparents?

A fair number of grandparents are also having to care for their parents.

One of my friends works five evenings a week, looks after her grandkids two days a week, and cares for her mother three days a week (and calls her every day that she can't visit. There may not be a vast number doing that, but the sandwich generation is real. Only in the last couple of years have I been able to dispense with the older generation responsibilities, when my mum died, my MIL having died a couple of years earlier (I'm a widow so stepped in where my DH would have). And I've been doing irregular childcare for my DGDs for six years.

I still consider myself time-rich though, as my DD doesn't expect regular multi days a week of childcare.

BlackRowan · 15/04/2026 16:38

nixon1976 · 15/04/2026 15:33

This is one million percent nonsense. A grandmother does not have to babysit the kids, in any form, in order to have a meaningful relationship with them. Yes, it is precious and rewarding spending time on your own with them, but this can be achieved in a weekend a year or a day a month or whatever it is taking them to lunch/baking/watching their dance class. It's all fulfilling and valid.

yeah you keep telling yourself that 😂😂😂
this just demonstrates that you don’t actually know what a close relationship is.

ValhallaCalling · 15/04/2026 16:39

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:33

Tell me you expect your mother to do free babysitting for your children whilst you're at work, without telling me you expect your mother to do free babysitting for your children whilst you're at work. Wink

I pay for all my child care. Her grandfather picks her up once a week on the day neither of us finish work early enough to get and has her for an hour. That's it.

I do dread visiting my hostile mother though, I see the OP in her! 🤭

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 16:40

but the sandwich generation is real

The sandwich generation refers to parents looking after their own young kids AND elderly parents. It's not about great grandparents. I dont know anyone whose grandparents are looking after their parents- that would make them about 110 years old

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:40

saraclara · 15/04/2026 15:42

Yes. She said that childcare is work. Not ...that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour

Giving up one's retirement to do regular childcare for your grandchildren, often for 3-5 days a week, is hard work and a huge commitment. It's work, whatever pleasures might be gained along the way.

Spending time with ones grandchildren can, and usually is, something much more flexible, less tiring, and does not imply sole responsibility and commitment.

100% this. Suggesting that visiting your senior age mother is as much work and stress as looking after small children is fecking hilarious. What a ludicrous thing to say! 😆

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 16:40

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 16:30

Is this a joke? Obviously people who are working and looking after children are going to be considerably more time poor than someone retired who only has themselves / their partner to look after.

How old are you imagining these grandparents are? You do know retirement age is 67? And the average age to have a first baby now is 29.4 ( say 30 for ease). So in 1995 when these 30 year olds were born the average age was 27.5.

So for an " average" time for a woman for be a grandparent wouldbe57. 5 years

That's 10 years before they can retire

I'm 54, many people my age have grandchildren. All working full time. Some of them have teenagers of their own and young grandchildren. I had a primary school aged child and a grandchild at one point lol

And as someone up thread pointed out they are sometimes caring for elderly relatives etc

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 16:41

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:36

She's right though. I 'can't believe' that you can't believe it. 😆

Lol. She most certainly isn’t “right”, is she.

I’m sorry you consider spending time with your grandchildren as work. To be fair, I suppose many people consider spending time with their mothers as work too.

But generally, most grandparents actually like their grandchildren as individuals in their own right, and enjoy spending time with them.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 16:42

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:36

She's right though. I 'can't believe' that you can't believe it. 😆

When a parent is looking after their small child, they're "in the trenches and it's exhausting" and "of course being a SAHM is just like a working day, only harder"
When their mother, maybe three decades older, is looking after their small grandchild, it's "quality time building their relationship"

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 16:44

Zov · 15/04/2026 16:40

100% this. Suggesting that visiting your senior age mother is as much work and stress as looking after small children is fecking hilarious. What a ludicrous thing to say! 😆

Perhaps you should re-read my post.

I suggest that spending time with your grandchildren isn’t work, but is as much relationship building and maintenance, as spending time with your mother is.

Grandchildren are part of a family in their own right.

nixon1976 · 15/04/2026 16:45

GlovedhandsCecilia · 15/04/2026 16:36

Maybe for the grandparent. Maybe not for the child. The child might need more than that to feel any kind of attachment to the grandparent. You cant force them to feel it is enough to love you because that's all you can be bothered to do.

What do you mean, 'that's all you can be bothered to do'? Grandparents work, or aren't able to physically babysit, or live too far away, or can't or don't want to commit to regular childcare for a thousand different reasons. This is the whole point of the OP's thread - why do you think grandparents have to offer this service otherwise they are 'less than' and they have 'ruined their relationships with their grandkids'? It's nonsense. Where does this sense of entitlement come from? Btw I am not a grandparent, my parents did not help me regularly and their parents did not help them. We live far apart but we all have healthy and happy relationships and my kids adore them and vice versa.