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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:33

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 11:51

You consider spending time with your grandchildren “abuse”.

YOU are the one who is “grossly entitled”, by the sounds of it expecting your children to submit to your demands and convenience and whims when they are in a very demanding period of life raising children and presumably also working, yet you feel entitled to demand that they visit you on your terms and use their little bit of free time to facilitate this to your convenience so you don’t have to lift a finger to actually look after your own grandchildren in any way during the time they are there.

“Disney grandma”, basically, so you can act the part without actually making any effort to build any relationship with your grandchildren as individual people, probably take some posed photos with them forcing smiles next to you to show your friends and boast about things to which you have contributed precisely nothing at all, other than additional demands on your already tired children.

The fact you call other people “grossly entitled” then state you haven’t even bothered to read their responses to the post that YOU made shows quite an extreme level of cognitive dissonance. The tone and attitude displayed in your posts is one of the most supremely entitled and self-absorbed I’ve ever read on Mumsnet, which is quite an achievement.

Ultimately, you really shouldn’t be surprised if visits and contact becomes less and less frequent and you’ll have only yourself to blame for this because you certainly don’t come across as a supportive or kind person which people would enjoy putting themselves out frequently, to the extent you have stated that you demand from them, in order to spend time with you when you seem to be offering very little love or kindness in return, or even basic respect or empathy. If you treat your family as though they are a “burden” and consider any support for them to be an unacceptable “obligation” that you reject, if you speak to them in anything remotely resembling the language you have used in posts on this thread, then you can’t be surprised if they distance themselves from you and consider your demands on them to be a “burden” as well and an unacceptable obligation that in time they are likely to also reject. You can’t expect loving and caring family relationships to prosper if you treat your family members with such contempt.

As I said above (but you have stated you didn’t bother to read, like the comments of so many other posters who have taken the trouble to respond to you), ultimately you will reap what you sow.

ultimately you will reap what you sow.

This.

I can’t believe the OP actually wrote in her opening post that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour, but that spending time with one’s mother/grandmother is just normal relationship maintenance 😂

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 13:33

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:27

Never in my life have I seen any poster take a screen shot of the reactions to their post, and actually post it on the thread to show they are “right” 😂

You seem like an absolute nightmare from the way you conduct yourself online; can’t even begin to imagine what you’re like in person.

Well we usually have voting that tells us, but the OP turned that off because they don’t want to hear the other side.

Personally I think most of the flower reactions are people mourning the OPs sense of empathy and kindness, so they probably shouldn’t be counted…

Differentforgirls · 15/04/2026 13:34

These threads always descend into people throwing the man rather than the ball.

echt · 15/04/2026 13:36

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:33

ultimately you will reap what you sow.

This.

I can’t believe the OP actually wrote in her opening post that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour, but that spending time with one’s mother/grandmother is just normal relationship maintenance 😂

The reason you can't believe it is because the OP didn't say it, so you made it up.

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:48

echt · 15/04/2026 13:36

The reason you can't believe it is because the OP didn't say it, so you made it up.

From the OP:

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

Unless you’re going to tell me that the OP is the kind of person who doesn’t view babysitting as childcare and will happily have her grandchildren overnight occasionally, or take them to the park, or have them for dinner at the weekend, one on one.

From her posts, I highly doubt it.

MrFluffyDogIsMyBestFriend · 15/04/2026 13:48

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:12

Ah the old chuck some "nuanced" mud in the water and claim "empathy" because the simplicity of the truth is a bit confronting ploy.

No. No, I don't thnk we will.

Everything already asked and answered.

I stopped agreeing with you at this point. What an idiotic thing to say.

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 13:52

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:33

ultimately you will reap what you sow.

This.

I can’t believe the OP actually wrote in her opening post that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour, but that spending time with one’s mother/grandmother is just normal relationship maintenance 😂

haha yes- that one made me chuckle too!

The selfishness is staggering

HeyThereDelila · 15/04/2026 13:54

Hurrah, OP! Well said, I agree with you.

Signed,

A 40 year old mother of two (one of whom is a baby), who doesn’t have much family support- certainly not childcare - but wouldn’t expect my DPs to do it anyway as they are rightly busy with their own lives as well as being too tired.

Sunshineandoranges · 15/04/2026 13:55

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 11:01

Nobody and the OP didn't have a problem with grandparents doing what they want to do, freely. Who would have a problem with that? Enjoy I say!

No my point is that enjoy it or not, you should help your loved ones when they need it. Parents of young children often feel overwhelmed. I love my children and would help out wth childcare when they need it regardless of whether i wanted to. I dont mean doing full time childcare or anything just giving them a break when they need it.

OVienna · 15/04/2026 13:58

H3342 · 15/04/2026 12:47

I agree with you 99% - the only thing I would take issue with is

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later

I feel it does matter whether your parents had help. This is the time to show how it benefited you and how you want to pay it forward to your children. Taking and then not passing the experience on is incredible selfish..

The caveat to that though is that we won't retire until 67, our mothers often were retired at 60. Those 7 years make a hell of a difference in stamina and health. So at nearly 70 when you retire I totally agree you may not wish to do any childcare and your children using this as emotional blackmail is vile.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later.

This is gobsmacking.

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 14:06

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 12:18

Go over to gransnet. It’s as dead as a dodo, so they have all come here to get their chat. And rather than stewing amongst themselves they are taking the opportunity to give their daughters and daughters in law the kicking they so obviously want to (but aren’t brave enough to) do in real life.

Agree.

This reeks of the kind of thing you see over on Gransnet.

Thread after thread by some of the most unpleasant posters you have ever seen online, but none of them with any idea why their children don’t speak to them (apart from their controlling DIL, that is).

They are 100% the kind of people to take a screenshot of reactions to their posts (if Gransnet allowed reactions) and post it on the thread to bolster their position 😂

Dontlletmedownbruce · 15/04/2026 14:31

@Vivi0 I agree. Can you imagine how obnoxious this OP would be while engaging with grandchildren? Probably cheating at games just to win.

Focacciaisyum · 15/04/2026 14:34

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:30

Again, it's the blackmail about the lack of parental childcare that is the issue. It's the pre thought out threat of withdrawing elderly help if don't do childcare is the issue for me or having no relationship with the grandchildren at all if don't do the care.
I presume all these women had good relations with their own mothers, until became mothers themselves?

I honestly dont see how elderly parents who refused to help out with childcare can reasonably expect to get elder care from.their kids. What goes around comes around. ESPECIALLY if they themselves had lots of help from their parents. Fuck that!
And also why do you expect to be 'visited' why dont you get off your arse and use some of your ample free time and visit your kids and grandkids? Your grandchildren have their stuff at their home. They can play rather than be expected to sit making awkward conversation with adults who apparently dont like them very much.

Ketryne · 15/04/2026 14:34

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 11:38

176 likes/agreements so far. Lovely :) haven''t bothered reading any replies since page 2, because as I said then there is no rational or reasonable argument that can be made against what I said and everything was covered in the original post.

No point in letting those who are deliberately lying, or grossly entitled, get a rise from me - so I won't :)

The reason for posting was simple - you're not getting away with abusing your mothers like this, decent people see through you and everyone around you is thinking more or less what I am thinking whenever you start to flap your entitled gums.

And I want you to know that.

I am delighted to see such overwhelming support for my commonsense, fair and reasonable post.

It seems the majority sees through the dictator daughters' manipulative emotional blackmail and attempts to make false comparisons as just what it is - vicious coercion dressed up as sentiment.

Good. Attached a screenshot of the upvotes, let's see if it gets through.

Ciao - and thanks for all the support. Might check back tomorrow to see if the likes continue to climb :)

Edited

You sound like a treat.

OVienna · 15/04/2026 15:01

@ProjectHailMary i see now yiu probably didnt see my earlier post so wouldnt have seen what Id said prevously...i sn see why i wssnt clear.

Bluedenimdoglover · 15/04/2026 15:22

Really people, these arguments are never going to be resolved. Let's just accept the reality of life today:
Some grandparents love looking after their grand children;
Some grandparents resent looking after their grandchildren but are too afraid of upsetting their own offspring to object;
Some grandparents will not look after their grandchildren (their reasons are immaterial, here);
Some grandparents would love to have their grandchildren close enough to provide child care;
Some daughters/sons will use their children as weapons to get the childcare they want;
Some daughters/sons would love to have grandparents to provide childcare.
There it is - no-one on this planet can resolve all the differences that arise within families. Just accept that everyone is different and you can't change people, they can only change themselves.

RawBloomers · 15/04/2026 15:28

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 04:37

No, no, sorry but everything already covered by the original post.

No. No. Sorry. You did not cover that in your original post.

Hailstoness · 15/04/2026 15:29

No grandchildren here but whilst I would want to be happy to babysit for them to have a night out and help out when stuck etc., I believe it really is not unreasonable to not want the effort of providing childcare while they work.

I found raising my own without any support exhausting, particularly the years my husband was travelling, I just couldn't face it again.

nixon1976 · 15/04/2026 15:33

BlackRowan · 15/04/2026 05:10

If you love your grandchildren spending time with them is precious and if you love your child helping them is also fulfilling and rewarding. It is ALL part of family life.

The bond between grandmother and grandchild will never be the same if built over just “family visits” vs time alone between child and grandmother. It’s never going to be as close.

why did you have children if you despise this work so much ? Did you not think that eventually you’ll have grandchildren?

This is one million percent nonsense. A grandmother does not have to babysit the kids, in any form, in order to have a meaningful relationship with them. Yes, it is precious and rewarding spending time on your own with them, but this can be achieved in a weekend a year or a day a month or whatever it is taking them to lunch/baking/watching their dance class. It's all fulfilling and valid.

TheSocialHermit · 15/04/2026 15:39

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

I think the issue is often with grandparents who expect the children to be brought to them, rather than making the effort to visit the children in their own home—which is already childproofed and set up with toys to keep them entertained—or being willing to meet at a child-friendly venue.

For example, they could join us at the park, come along to a swimming session (with no expectation to participate—they can simply sit on the sidelines), or meet at a museum.

Both of my children have SEN, and visiting other people’s homes can be incredibly stressful. They require constant supervision—for instance, they may put small objects in their mouths—which makes these visits far from enjoyable for either me or them.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 15:42

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 13:48

From the OP:

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

Unless you’re going to tell me that the OP is the kind of person who doesn’t view babysitting as childcare and will happily have her grandchildren overnight occasionally, or take them to the park, or have them for dinner at the weekend, one on one.

From her posts, I highly doubt it.

Yes. She said that childcare is work. Not ...that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour

Giving up one's retirement to do regular childcare for your grandchildren, often for 3-5 days a week, is hard work and a huge commitment. It's work, whatever pleasures might be gained along the way.

Spending time with ones grandchildren can, and usually is, something much more flexible, less tiring, and does not imply sole responsibility and commitment.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 15:50

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 14:06

Agree.

This reeks of the kind of thing you see over on Gransnet.

Thread after thread by some of the most unpleasant posters you have ever seen online, but none of them with any idea why their children don’t speak to them (apart from their controlling DIL, that is).

They are 100% the kind of people to take a screenshot of reactions to their posts (if Gransnet allowed reactions) and post it on the thread to bolster their position 😂

Edited

Mumsnet is full of women complaining about their mothers in law (and sometimes mothers)
Surely it's only fair and reasonable that the older generation should be allowed to have somewhere to moan about their DILs (and sometimes daughters)?

Do you seriously think that every adult DIL and daughter is saintly, and every MIL and mother always wrong? Because that really isn't the case. We're none of us perfect.

Relationships are complex, and anyone struggling with one is allowed somewhere to vent.

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/04/2026 16:00

Zov · 15/04/2026 12:40

I noticed that too. You can see who the entitled ones are on this thread - who think granny should be looking after the children whilst mummy is at work. Wink

Also we then have posts calling the OP 'silly' and 'a rant'

That's a ✅️ for the misogyny bingo card:
Women are silly for being upset if their reasonable boundaries are violated

And

Women being justifiably angry = ranting

Why aren't more women mighty pissed off about the life long unpaid labour society expected from women?

Much easier to turn on those who speak out instead (slow hand clap).

Victoria Smith talks about this in her excellent book Hags.

beAsensible1 · 15/04/2026 16:06

I have watched various friends run their parents ragged with childcare in the younger years, nursery fees, club fees, school runs. and still they gripe on about never get any help. its frankly galling.

I think the issue isn't ad hoc baby sitting most GPs would love that, it's the idea of regular childcare, like a job often when GPs themselves are still working irony just recently retired. then complain the "mum looks ill, mum looks tired" but never making the correlation between the two.

It takes all the enjoyment out of the experience. Also the refusal to build a village with friends or cousins and siblings who are similar age who also have children. which makes more sense than constantly asking the 70 year olds. splitting summer holidays with your friends or school mums who also have children, so you can alternate annual leave usage and just have all the kids round a one house and send packed lunches.

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 16:07

saraclara · 15/04/2026 15:42

Yes. She said that childcare is work. Not ...that spending time with one’s grandchildren meets the criteria of work/labour

Giving up one's retirement to do regular childcare for your grandchildren, often for 3-5 days a week, is hard work and a huge commitment. It's work, whatever pleasures might be gained along the way.

Spending time with ones grandchildren can, and usually is, something much more flexible, less tiring, and does not imply sole responsibility and commitment.

Yes, and going over to have a cup of tea with your parents isn't work. Taking them to their appointments and fixing their computer is work.