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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 12:13

Vivi0 · 15/04/2026 12:00

What’s so funny?

The OP’s opening post states that childcare is work, and that no one is entitled to free labour.

There has then been a flurry of posts, by people absolutely horrified by the prospect of adult children not helping out elderly parents, if those parents did not help out with childcare.

But surely, if you take the view that no one is entitled to free labour, and that childcare is indeed labour, then so too is elder care.

Sorry, again I misread your post and thought you’d said the opposite.

I clearly need to stop posting. Much too tired… that would be the lone parenting for 9 years without even one hour of family helping in any way! Must get to work now before my brain melts entirely.

Apologies for not reading properly with my blurry, sleep-deprived eyes.

WearyAuldWumman · 15/04/2026 12:16

EstherGreenwood63 · 15/04/2026 11:42

@WearyAuldWumman I am SO sorry you and your dh were treated like that. Sadly many people are awful, selfish arseholes who go on to raise the same. 💐

Thank you.

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 12:16

Why is there such a flurry of older women attacking mothers at the moment. Why Mumsnet, wasn't this forum set up to suppirt mothers? You mustn't expect anything from your mother but you MUST give your life to care for them, you mustn't use school as childcare etc etc. Mothers seriously cannot win with this type of personality.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 12:16

OVienna · 15/04/2026 12:10

No problem. I was surprised though.

Much too tired. So sorry.

Hasn’t helped that the totally non-engaged grandparents have, entirely predictably, been on the phone this morning making more demands for visits/ help with organising their lives etc… not even joking. 😒 Quite funny given the timing and reading this thread today. 😆

Ireallycantthinkofagoodone · 15/04/2026 12:16

@Youlittlenightmare - I really agree with what you have said, and although I provided some childcare at the expense of my pension, I was happy to do so.

This is not really related, but it’s always stuck in my memory…..
A couple on a ‘find me a suitable property to buy’ programme, wanted a house that was near enough to her parents so they could babysit, but not so close that the same parents ‘would make a nuisance of themselves’!!
I often wondered whether the parents in question decided to move away from their cheeky daughter.

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 12:18

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 12:16

Why is there such a flurry of older women attacking mothers at the moment. Why Mumsnet, wasn't this forum set up to suppirt mothers? You mustn't expect anything from your mother but you MUST give your life to care for them, you mustn't use school as childcare etc etc. Mothers seriously cannot win with this type of personality.

Go over to gransnet. It’s as dead as a dodo, so they have all come here to get their chat. And rather than stewing amongst themselves they are taking the opportunity to give their daughters and daughters in law the kicking they so obviously want to (but aren’t brave enough to) do in real life.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:19

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 11:06

True. And they don't have to do anything, do they? It's not compulsory. No one is saying they have to have any involvement in their grandchildren's lives at all, even sending a birthday card in the post.

What I AM saying is that daughters don't have to do a single thing either. And it seems that some very entitled people on here have a massive problem with that

No, I think you misunderstood me. No, daughters don't have to do anything, but what is seen over and over is daughters not doing anything (or threatening) as a direct result if grandparents don't do childcare. This is manipulative, punishment and pretty shit tbh. It's this I have issue with.

My parents are both dead but no way in gods earth would I have let them struggle getting to hospital appts on the basis they didn't do any childcare or what I got from them first. My parents by the way actually did very little for us all as adults (brothers included) and they lived a 5hr drive away and in 20 years never once visited us after they moved all that way. We all drove to see them and we all helped when mum got cancer regardless of 'personal gain' obtained prior.

ps, Childcare = loads of hours of unpaid work as apposed to the occasional babysitting.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:23

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:56

Total bullshit. Sorry.
Why does not providing endless free childcare mean there the relationship of the grown up children ends? The only people being transactional are the grown ups who expect grandparents free childcare threatening no relationship.

The grandparents are contributing to that transactionality though. Mine have done bugger all for me since kicking me out of home at 18, but now they're both old and unwell, they want me to step up and help out. Part of me thinks 'why the fuck should I?' But I am not that person and will help out. But the thing is, the reason our relationship isn't the close, loving one I'd have liked it to be is because they made it that way. They were never that interested in me and then my kids, until it suited them. So transactionality isn't a one-way street and some people are going to think 'why should I make the effort if you can't be bothered?'

OVienna · 15/04/2026 12:23

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 12:16

Much too tired. So sorry.

Hasn’t helped that the totally non-engaged grandparents have, entirely predictably, been on the phone this morning making more demands for visits/ help with organising their lives etc… not even joking. 😒 Quite funny given the timing and reading this thread today. 😆

I get you.

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 12:23

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 12:16

Why is there such a flurry of older women attacking mothers at the moment. Why Mumsnet, wasn't this forum set up to suppirt mothers? You mustn't expect anything from your mother but you MUST give your life to care for them, you mustn't use school as childcare etc etc. Mothers seriously cannot win with this type of personality.

Older women are mothers as well you know

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:26

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:23

The grandparents are contributing to that transactionality though. Mine have done bugger all for me since kicking me out of home at 18, but now they're both old and unwell, they want me to step up and help out. Part of me thinks 'why the fuck should I?' But I am not that person and will help out. But the thing is, the reason our relationship isn't the close, loving one I'd have liked it to be is because they made it that way. They were never that interested in me and then my kids, until it suited them. So transactionality isn't a one-way street and some people are going to think 'why should I make the effort if you can't be bothered?'

Again, this isn't really what the thread was about, and you too feel understandable resentment after no help from the age of 18 is normal, but it isn't normal parental behaviour to leave you like that and am sorry your parents didn't support you.

What we (the OP) are chatting about is the threat of no elderly care as a direct result of not doing a bulk of childcare.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:26

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:19

No, I think you misunderstood me. No, daughters don't have to do anything, but what is seen over and over is daughters not doing anything (or threatening) as a direct result if grandparents don't do childcare. This is manipulative, punishment and pretty shit tbh. It's this I have issue with.

My parents are both dead but no way in gods earth would I have let them struggle getting to hospital appts on the basis they didn't do any childcare or what I got from them first. My parents by the way actually did very little for us all as adults (brothers included) and they lived a 5hr drive away and in 20 years never once visited us after they moved all that way. We all drove to see them and we all helped when mum got cancer regardless of 'personal gain' obtained prior.

ps, Childcare = loads of hours of unpaid work as apposed to the occasional babysitting.

I'll do the same for my parents, who were similarly not involved in mine or my kids' lives - but there is a question mark over whether they actually deserve it. Lots of parents who do the absolute bare minimum in parenting seem to think they deserve to be loved and cherished in old age by those same offspring they couldn't really be bothered with. ALL relationships ARE transactional to some degree. Nobody owes their parents late-life care in the same way those parents didn't owe their own children any help with their kids. You don't 'owe' it but by the same token you shouldn't expect it either.

Weregoingtothefuckingmoon · 15/04/2026 12:26

Thechaseison71 · 15/04/2026 12:23

Older women are mothers as well you know

They absolutely are, and most older women do not behave like the OPs on these threads. It is a very specific type of personality that behaves in this way IME.

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 15/04/2026 12:27

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 12:18

Go over to gransnet. It’s as dead as a dodo, so they have all come here to get their chat. And rather than stewing amongst themselves they are taking the opportunity to give their daughters and daughters in law the kicking they so obviously want to (but aren’t brave enough to) do in real life.

When MN started and many of the oldest members had young/youngish children, but they didn't have a cohort of women in their 60s/70s telling them they were wrong and entitled about everything!

Funnily enough my son's great grandparents (late 80s) are lovely to get on with in regard to parenting vs both my parents and in laws. We only ever visit them, nothing in return, and we find it easy to discuss our lives with them without criticism and bitterness. It really does seem to be a (non universal) boomer phenomenon.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:28

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:26

Again, this isn't really what the thread was about, and you too feel understandable resentment after no help from the age of 18 is normal, but it isn't normal parental behaviour to leave you like that and am sorry your parents didn't support you.

What we (the OP) are chatting about is the threat of no elderly care as a direct result of not doing a bulk of childcare.

Edited

I get that. My point - which was admittedly too burdened with my own personal experience - is that all relationships are transactional to some degree. If you don't put in, you can't expect to take out. Otherwise you are relying on the other person being a better person than you are and/or being too weak-willed to say no to you.

Differentforgirls · 15/04/2026 12:29

ThejoyofNC · 15/04/2026 08:18

What a load of misery. So glad I'm not from modern British culture. It's so selfish.

Don’t think there is such a thing.

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 12:30

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:26

I'll do the same for my parents, who were similarly not involved in mine or my kids' lives - but there is a question mark over whether they actually deserve it. Lots of parents who do the absolute bare minimum in parenting seem to think they deserve to be loved and cherished in old age by those same offspring they couldn't really be bothered with. ALL relationships ARE transactional to some degree. Nobody owes their parents late-life care in the same way those parents didn't owe their own children any help with their kids. You don't 'owe' it but by the same token you shouldn't expect it either.

Helping out ageing parents isn't really the same as looking after excitable, crying, messy, noisy young kids day after day to a schedule early morning till evening, taking to and fro to school and nursery, though

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:30

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:26

I'll do the same for my parents, who were similarly not involved in mine or my kids' lives - but there is a question mark over whether they actually deserve it. Lots of parents who do the absolute bare minimum in parenting seem to think they deserve to be loved and cherished in old age by those same offspring they couldn't really be bothered with. ALL relationships ARE transactional to some degree. Nobody owes their parents late-life care in the same way those parents didn't owe their own children any help with their kids. You don't 'owe' it but by the same token you shouldn't expect it either.

Again, it's the blackmail about the lack of parental childcare that is the issue. It's the pre thought out threat of withdrawing elderly help if don't do childcare is the issue for me or having no relationship with the grandchildren at all if don't do the care.
I presume all these women had good relations with their own mothers, until became mothers themselves?

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:30

Credittocress · 15/04/2026 12:18

Go over to gransnet. It’s as dead as a dodo, so they have all come here to get their chat. And rather than stewing amongst themselves they are taking the opportunity to give their daughters and daughters in law the kicking they so obviously want to (but aren’t brave enough to) do in real life.

This has very much been my impression of MN recently!

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:32

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:30

Again, it's the blackmail about the lack of parental childcare that is the issue. It's the pre thought out threat of withdrawing elderly help if don't do childcare is the issue for me or having no relationship with the grandchildren at all if don't do the care.
I presume all these women had good relations with their own mothers, until became mothers themselves?

I don't think that 'blackmail' happens directly though. Most people do still love their mothers, even if they think they're pretty shit as parents/grandparents. It's a gradual erosion of hope and expectation over time rather than 'if you don't babysit, you can expect to go into a shit care home.'

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 15/04/2026 12:32

Clonakilla · 15/04/2026 03:40

The individual daughter? It’s surely both parents who are responsible for childcare and therefore both parents who are unreasonable to expect it of their parents?

There’s no point being outraged at expectations that older women provide free care whilst simultaneously assuming it’s the younger woman’s responsibility to provide childcare and her failing when she expects it of others.

I came here to say exactly this.

Children are not solely women's responsibility. Let's stop letting the fathers off the hook!

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:32

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:28

I get that. My point - which was admittedly too burdened with my own personal experience - is that all relationships are transactional to some degree. If you don't put in, you can't expect to take out. Otherwise you are relying on the other person being a better person than you are and/or being too weak-willed to say no to you.

Edited

My parents already put in, when I was growing up. When they had the energy and the health.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:33

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:32

My parents already put in, when I was growing up. When they had the energy and the health.

Edited

Good for you - I am happy for you. Lots do the absolute bare minimum though.

Zov · 15/04/2026 12:33

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 11:38

176 likes/agreements so far. Lovely :) haven''t bothered reading any replies since page 2, because as I said then there is no rational or reasonable argument that can be made against what I said and everything was covered in the original post.

No point in letting those who are deliberately lying, or grossly entitled, get a rise from me - so I won't :)

The reason for posting was simple - you're not getting away with abusing your mothers like this, decent people see through you and everyone around you is thinking more or less what I am thinking whenever you start to flap your entitled gums.

And I want you to know that.

I am delighted to see such overwhelming support for my commonsense, fair and reasonable post.

It seems the majority sees through the dictator daughters' manipulative emotional blackmail and attempts to make false comparisons as just what it is - vicious coercion dressed up as sentiment.

Good. Attached a screenshot of the upvotes, let's see if it gets through.

Ciao - and thanks for all the support. Might check back tomorrow to see if the likes continue to climb :)

Edited

That is a LOT of upvotes! I will make it one more in a minute, as I agree. (I bet it's over 200 now.)

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 12:36

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 12:32

I don't think that 'blackmail' happens directly though. Most people do still love their mothers, even if they think they're pretty shit as parents/grandparents. It's a gradual erosion of hope and expectation over time rather than 'if you don't babysit, you can expect to go into a shit care home.'

I have read these threats on MN for a few months actually! It's a real shame.