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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
AmIReallyTheGrownup · 15/04/2026 10:57

Differentforgirls · 15/04/2026 10:50

Just what the OP was talking about. Blackmailing your parents.

It’s not blackmail. Why should a daughter put herself out to do things she doesn’t want to do, if we’ve established that it’s not right to ask grandparents to perform any familial chores that don’t suit them?

We rarely visit my MIL because it has to be on her terms: travelling hours to her rural home whilst we (I) try to occupy toddlers in a house full of antiques and expensive items whilst my DH gets on with sorting out whatever tech or admin problems have cropped up. It’s fine, she doesn’t like small kids, so we can’t expect her to spend time with ours.

Meanwhile my parents, who also don’t live nearby, don’t do regular childcare but adore their grandkids and will even offer up that we go out for lunch or dinner whilst they cover childcare if we visit for the weekend. Funnily enough we are more likely to rearrange our lives to visit them. Even my DH vastly prefers spending time with my parents because they include our children.

Sunshineandoranges · 15/04/2026 10:58

You seem to have removed any objection by excluding any grandparentswho enjoy looking after their grandchildren. What about the parents who see their sons or daughters struggling as parents of young children, both working full time. Perhaps our love for our children means whether we love having care of grandchildren or not, we sometimes do it to give the parents a break. I had a four year break to look after my two children and worked part time for much of their child. Nowadays young parents often both work full time and long hours. Just be kind and that esoecially applies to your own children.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:59

AmIReallyTheGrownup · 15/04/2026 10:57

It’s not blackmail. Why should a daughter put herself out to do things she doesn’t want to do, if we’ve established that it’s not right to ask grandparents to perform any familial chores that don’t suit them?

We rarely visit my MIL because it has to be on her terms: travelling hours to her rural home whilst we (I) try to occupy toddlers in a house full of antiques and expensive items whilst my DH gets on with sorting out whatever tech or admin problems have cropped up. It’s fine, she doesn’t like small kids, so we can’t expect her to spend time with ours.

Meanwhile my parents, who also don’t live nearby, don’t do regular childcare but adore their grandkids and will even offer up that we go out for lunch or dinner whilst they cover childcare if we visit for the weekend. Funnily enough we are more likely to rearrange our lives to visit them. Even my DH vastly prefers spending time with my parents because they include our children.

Because some of us value our parents, regardless of what they can do for us in their old age.
Because this is what love is. It's not so cold-hearted and transactional.

Your situation is different. We're talking grandparents who don't want to take on the bulk of childcare, not those who live miles away and cannot.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 11:01

Sunshineandoranges · 15/04/2026 10:58

You seem to have removed any objection by excluding any grandparentswho enjoy looking after their grandchildren. What about the parents who see their sons or daughters struggling as parents of young children, both working full time. Perhaps our love for our children means whether we love having care of grandchildren or not, we sometimes do it to give the parents a break. I had a four year break to look after my two children and worked part time for much of their child. Nowadays young parents often both work full time and long hours. Just be kind and that esoecially applies to your own children.

Nobody and the OP didn't have a problem with grandparents doing what they want to do, freely. Who would have a problem with that? Enjoy I say!

OVienna · 15/04/2026 11:01

I do get what the OP is saying on one level.

However, it can also be the case the grandparents don't manage their comms on this well or understand that parents can't facilitate what THEY would prefer the contact to look like principally on their terms. I think this is where the issues arise.

We've had no regular help with any childcare - my parents are in another country and DH's don't live close so obviously we wouldn't.

DH's were asked one time to help when I was dealing with a death of a relative abroad and went to pieces, my SIL very kindly took time off from work to assist. That is the sum total from them.

My father was the one who bailed us out in three separate crisis (over fifteen years) when we had au pairs quit. I will forever be eternally grateful for these times, it literally saved us.

As soon as he was on the plane, my mother's bitching would start and things would start 'going wrong' at home. You could set your watch by it and if I could have gone to William Hill for bets, I would have done so.

My mother never came on my maternity leaves to see us, when I had months and months of free time we could have spent together, but would wait until I was back at work and juggling childcare which she wasn't doing but sort of "supervising" (picking DD up from nursery.) And then get sad I wasn't home.

One time she did come when DD1 was a toddler and did things like pick a fight with me when I was about to join a conference call and accuse me of treating her like the nanny. Literally it was me doing the lot with her sitting and watching me and trying to check emails and keep on top of calls. Unbelievable. The thing is, fantastically, she did think she was helping. What she wanted was for me to facilitate time with her granddaughter - I can't do that during my working day though.

Her other helpful idea was to suggest very expensive childcare options that we had no means of paying for whatsoever (at one point I had four options on the go).

I've been super resentful over the years at my mother's exasperation that I don't have time for her (or why I'm 'so stressed' always) when she was retired at my age (fifties) and doing exactly what she pleased during the day.

Her mother lived with us and she had a full-time housekeeper and a 9-5 job.

It actually does matter when people criticise and look aghast at a request for help with no appreciation at all for how much easier they had it.

I hope I'm around to help my DDs when the time comes.

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 11:01

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:54

Because you spell it as a direct result of the grandparents not providing care. It's a consequence, a threat of one at least.

What about the fact the grandma herself brought her own children up, did everything for them, looking after when ill, school, taxi runs, nursed them when ill, held b'day parties etc, that seems to mean sod all with the now adult children who then become mums themselves. All that care, love and time means nothing to them because they don't want to provide childcare for the grandchildren too.

Nice attitude eh? Yeah, fuck em in their old age, fuck em. They didn't provide free childcare so ner-ner.

Edited

Well they chose to have a child, didn't they? I thought it was a mumsnet fact that children don't owe their parents anything.

And it's just a natural consequence, isn't it? Your parents/inlaws put themselves and their lives first and tell you to sort out your own problems, so you follow that logic when they have problems. Put yourself first and encourage then to sort it out themselves 🤷‍♀️

I would do anything for my own parents. Anything. And they would do anything for me, and have helped beyond measure with my own children, as have my inlaws. I'm grateful for the help and for the joy they bring to our lives. If they were the sort of people who did sweet fanny adams while I struggled, I imagine I wouldn't love them as much and wouldn't care if they didn't want to oay for a taxi.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 11:02

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:53

The 'blackmail and threats' people are really outing themselves here as people who feel entitled to the labour of their children (who didn't choose to be born) supporting them and visiting them in their old age, and are outraged at the suggestion that this might not happen, or that they should morally help others if they expect help themselves

Using your own logic, they didn't chose for the grandchildren to be born.

PepsiBook · 15/04/2026 11:04

Grandparents do not have to provide childcare.
That's not a ground to stop them seeing eachother, no.
But, if they clearly want to help you surely you'd have a better relationship with them and therefore want to see them more in return and help them wherever you can?
A grandparent who has not ever helped, babysat, nothing, even when they know the parents on on their knees, ill, in hospital etc is a pretty shit one.
You're likely to get out of the relationship what you put in.
Don't be surprised or hurt when you're not invited for Christmas etc.

CostadiMar · 15/04/2026 11:06

I think the main problem is the general degeneration of (family) relations. Back in my home country it's normal for toddlers/small kids to be cared for by grandparents, aunts and extensive family members. I now live in England and everything seems to be very institutionalised and expensive here + there is a lot of resentment towards older parents and it's trendy to go 'no contact'. Much less forgiveness and little familial love left in general. Not sure what the reasons are, some of it seems to be cultural though.
We do have our arguments and fights at home too, on regular basis, but it's never a matter of 'life and death'. Family is family and everybody seems to understand that and we nurture this thought and teach this to our children, too. We tend to help each other out in a time of need and it just seems so stupid to destroy the relation because of an argument.

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 11:06

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 11:02

Using your own logic, they didn't chose for the grandchildren to be born.

True. And they don't have to do anything, do they? It's not compulsory. No one is saying they have to have any involvement in their grandchildren's lives at all, even sending a birthday card in the post.

What I AM saying is that daughters don't have to do a single thing either. And it seems that some very entitled people on here have a massive problem with that

Blondiebeachbabe · 15/04/2026 11:09

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:48

Why is it blackmail and threats? I thought we were all agreeing women don't have to do things they don't want to do. I personally might feel obligated to help grandparents at a vulnerable time if they had helped me at a vulnerable time, but if they just let me get on with it I would feel free to just let them get on with it.
Why should daughters have to do things they don't want to do? That's misogynistic

You're not looking at similar situations though.

If a woman with small children is tired, and she gets very little help from anyone, all that happens is that she's tired for a few years.

If a vulnerable elderly person is completely abandoned, they could be lying on the floor after a fall, and could just lie there until they starve to death.

Until you have a very elderly and vulnerable parent, you have no idea just how much work you're in for, whether you fancy doing it or not. It's not as easy as just saying that you won't do it, because they didn't babysit for you when you had toddlers. It's literally a daily matter of life or death.

Imagine getting a phone call from your 85 year old Dad, who proceeds to tell you that he's tipped out of his wheelchair and is lying on the floor. Can you really imagine a scenario in which you say "Tough shit Dad, you never babysat for Olivia when I was tired, so you'll just have to figure this out by yourself"

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 11:11

Blondiebeachbabe · 15/04/2026 11:09

You're not looking at similar situations though.

If a woman with small children is tired, and she gets very little help from anyone, all that happens is that she's tired for a few years.

If a vulnerable elderly person is completely abandoned, they could be lying on the floor after a fall, and could just lie there until they starve to death.

Until you have a very elderly and vulnerable parent, you have no idea just how much work you're in for, whether you fancy doing it or not. It's not as easy as just saying that you won't do it, because they didn't babysit for you when you had toddlers. It's literally a daily matter of life or death.

Imagine getting a phone call from your 85 year old Dad, who proceeds to tell you that he's tipped out of his wheelchair and is lying on the floor. Can you really imagine a scenario in which you say "Tough shit Dad, you never babysat for Olivia when I was tired, so you'll just have to figure this out by yourself"

Well what do the vulnerable elderly do if they have no children?

This IS emotional blackmail - if you don't sacrifice yourself to your elderly parents every whim they will die in agony and it will be your fault. No. The Gp and social worker can arrange care

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 11:11

BelBridge · 15/04/2026 09:22

But again, your situation is clearly not at all relevant to the point here. Your parents willingly volunteered-you did not attempt to emotionally manipulate them.

It is correct that they willingly volunteered but that is irrelevant to the point that I'm making, which is that grandparents doing regular childcare will typically have closer relationships with their grandchildren because they will see them more often.

Some posters seem to be arguing that grandparents should be free to decline any responsibility for childcare and that this should not have any impact on the quality of the grandparent-child relationship. I absolutely agree that grandparents should feel free to decline and responsibility for childcare. I just don't think it's realistic to think the relationships are unaffected by the choices that we make.

Hailstoness · 15/04/2026 11:12

OP, yanbu.
Women will get as many expectations placed on them as they will take.

My recently retired friend had a niece that she wasn't close to at all move into a doer upper nearby.

They were barely in their door when they called to my friends door looking for her brilliant DIY husbands help, and for her to take their toddler for a few hours. Her sister that she is not close to said they would be delighted to help out with DIY and childcare apparently!

They were given a cup of coffee and told very firmly that they were on their way out to lunch and wouldn't be available for either tasks.

Unbelievable presumption.
Her sister called her later several times and she didn't pick up for a couple of days.
She put her in her place too.

My friend had just had her youngest move out and had zero interest in providing ANYTHING for anyone, in any shape or form.

My SIL spent her 60's running round after 3 under 4 until her husband dropped dead and her own health suddenly left her.
She had worked so hard for 40 years in a hugely demanding career.
She had educated her 4 children throughout university and paid for everything.

She then retires and provides free childcare.
Massive mistake and massive regret on her part.

None of my friends in their early 60's are entertaining this.
They have witnessed the mistakes of other family members being exploited.
We had our children late and are relishing a break from responsibility.

matresense · 15/04/2026 11:13

@AprilMizzelthis is very familiar!

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 15/04/2026 11:14

This thread is a great example of how mumsnet has an increasing problem with it's ageing community.

It's not the individuals themselves that are older. There are as many nuanced and empathetic individuals in every age group.

It's that because the site is trying to attract and sell to current parents of young children, and they're finding a community that has a (not universal but significant) attitude of hostility and disdain for the generation that are currently mums.

And the older ones are not exactly easy to sell prams to, but those that are hostile are probably driving away traffic of those who do buy prams with their age-warfare.

Blondiebeachbabe · 15/04/2026 11:16

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 11:11

Well what do the vulnerable elderly do if they have no children?

This IS emotional blackmail - if you don't sacrifice yourself to your elderly parents every whim they will die in agony and it will be your fault. No. The Gp and social worker can arrange care

If my Dad didn't have me and my sister, he would be dead by now. It's that simple.

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 11:16

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:54

Because you spell it as a direct result of the grandparents not providing care. It's a consequence, a threat of one at least.

What about the fact the grandma herself brought her own children up, did everything for them, looking after when ill, school, taxi runs, nursed them when ill, held b'day parties etc, that seems to mean sod all with the now adult children who then become mums themselves. All that care, love and time means nothing to them because they don't want to provide childcare for the grandchildren too.

Nice attitude eh? Yeah, fuck em in their old age, fuck em. They didn't provide free childcare so ner-ner.

Edited

Family extends beyond your own children. It’s perfectly normal and a natural human instinct for anybody who isn’t dead inside to want to help and support wider family as much as is viable. This is natural human instinct and how human society has evolved to be over tens of thousands of years, always was in the UK and still is in the vast majority of the world. It is something quite unique to the specific current cohort of pensioners that such a large proportion of them are so entitled and self-absorbed that they do not recognise this basic and enduring part of what family is which is an inherent aspects of human nature. Such views have never been so prevalent in any of the generations before or after them. The same kind of attitude is frequently shown by this same cohort in other aspects of public life beyond family as well. It’s quite an interesting phenomenon from an anthropological perspective, but obviously not nice for the wider family (or society) which suffers as a result of this quite extreme narcissism uniquely prevalent in this cohort.

It’s ridiculous for posters to be simultaneously claiming their children with full time jobs and caring responsibilities don’t visit them regularly enough in their very minimal free time (which generally isn’t “free” at all due to all of the housework/ general life admin/ washing/ homework/ playdates/ clubs/ activities/ birthday parties etc. etc. that they need to get done at weekends on top of, you know, maybe getting to spend some time relaxing at home very occasionally with their own children?) and refusing to do anything whatsoever to ease the burden on the parents even during these visits to them and calling spending time with their own grandchildren “childcare”. Expecting the parents, after a long working week, to pack up all the things kids need to stay elsewhere, transport tired kids to the grandparents’ house, have to settle them to stay in a different environment so neither the parents or children sleep well, have no rest and be constantly expected to interact with both the children and the grandparents who have demanded to see them and entertain everyone, comply with the grandparents’ preferred whims and schedule, have them complaining if you leave the room temporarily even to go to the toilet and wailing that “we didn’t say we’d do childcare!” because you weren’t in the same room supervising everything for half a minute, and then to need to drive home and unpack everything again and settle the children back at home then start the next working week, now massively behind with housework and everything else and totally exhausted. And simultaneously these same grandparents claiming that they “don’t get to see their grandchildren enough”.

I’ve even had mine demand I spend chunks of my annual leave to go and stay in their house and visit them with my children (who hate going there, because they’ve never bothered to develop an independent relationship with my children at all) - as a lone parent with 13 weeks of school holidays to cover from 6 weeks per year of annual leave, and getting far too little quality time with my children myself (which my children state themselves they want more of, something they never say about time with their grandparents…).

This is the natural consequence of them being selfish, entitled people who aren’t pleasant for any of us to be around: none of us enjoy visiting them and it is exhausting and therefore isn’t something we want to do very often. It is a situation they have created from their own behaviour. Ultimately, you reap what you sow. If you make spending time with you very unpleasant and exhausting and show no love or care for your family members and explicitly tell them that you consider spending time with them or providing any type of support (emotional, practical etc.) to be a “burden” that shouldn’t be placed on you and you view family relationships in a cold and transactional manner, then you can hardly complain when they eventually give up on trying to have a normal, loving family relationship with you where people want to help each other due to genuine affection, and start to treat you in a similar manner. You can’t have it both ways.

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 15/04/2026 11:17

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 15/04/2026 11:11

It is correct that they willingly volunteered but that is irrelevant to the point that I'm making, which is that grandparents doing regular childcare will typically have closer relationships with their grandchildren because they will see them more often.

Some posters seem to be arguing that grandparents should be free to decline any responsibility for childcare and that this should not have any impact on the quality of the grandparent-child relationship. I absolutely agree that grandparents should feel free to decline and responsibility for childcare. I just don't think it's realistic to think the relationships are unaffected by the choices that we make.

Let's take the grandparents out of it.

My husband and I both did compressed hours and had a day off with our son. He switched jobs, and his new job does not allow compressed hours.

My son is more attached to me as a result, and unless my husband takes proactive steps to remedy the imbalance of time, he will continue to be more attached to me.

It's not as straightforward as that, of course, but the one thing that is equal to all of us is the hours available in the day.

JudgeJ · 15/04/2026 11:19

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 04:06

@WearyAuldWumman sorry they treated you like that

I too feel sorry you were treated so badly but in reality it's hardly surprising, considering the awful way in which step-mothers are perceived on MN.

Miranda65 · 15/04/2026 11:22

I have no kids, so no grandchildren, and therefore no skin in this game. But this is a fabulous opening post, standing up for women of my generation and making clear that their role in life is not simply to facilitate their adult children's lifestyle choices. Brava!

Timeandtune · 15/04/2026 11:23

When DS1 was at school ( years ago) there was a super gran ( divorced and early retired) who did all school drops off and pick
ups for 3 grandsons.
She got on well with the parents and socialised with the mums.
As the children got older she was no longer needed for child care .
i saw her once on her own in a coffee shop and she told me how she was “no longer needed”.

WutheringTights · 15/04/2026 11:23

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:45

Perfect example of how people use the 'village' as one sided and a threat.

Edited

Not a threat. A consequence. If someone is never willing to put themselves out even slightly to support me when I need it, then there is clearly no close loving relationship there. In that situation, what on earth would make them think that I’d put myself out to support them?

I say this as someone who never had any support from parents or in-laws even when deep in the trenches with small children and suffering severe burnout from trying to juggle it all with a demanding full time job. I’m now supporting my elderly MIL as she needs care. I see her 2-3 times a month. I know that she’s lonely and would like to see me more, but she never supported me when I needed it. I never asked for childcare, I was willing to pay for that, but she never even came round for a cup of tea and some company when I desperately needed some human contact immediately post-partum, or offered to make me a slice of toast when I had a Velcro baby, or offered a hand when I was grieving the death of a close relative. To see more of her would require me to sacrifice the very small amount of time I get to myself. She invested literally nothing in a relationship with me when she was well so I’m not willing to make sacrifices for her when she was unwilling to do literally anything for me. A consequence.

Crosorbled · 15/04/2026 11:24

Yabu. I remember how utterly exhausting it was to work and bring up my children with no help. I vowed that when my children had their own offspring I would be there to help. I believe that day is coming soon.

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 11:24

I'm chuckling to myself about this post.

OP: women are people and not just servants to others and should not be guilt tripped or expected to care for others, like grandchildren.

replies: Yeah, same with their daughters, they shouldn't be guilt tripped into caring for their parents or inlaws, they aren't servants, they are people too.

OP (and others): 😮😡😡😡

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