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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Stop being grabby and entitled and using false arguments to try to turn your mother into your servants

803 replies

Youlittlenightmare · 15/04/2026 02:58

Posting in AIBU for traction, not because I think I'm wrong - I know I'm right in fact :) But this is where many of the grabby, problematic mumsnetters turn up to have a whinge and make false arguments. So this is for all of you.

And let’s be clear, if you're a grandmother who genuinely loves caring for your grandchildren, good for you. This thread is not for or about you. If your own mother happily provides childcare and truly enjoys it, lovely. This thread is not or or about you either.

This is about dismantling a stubborn and deeply illogical belief that if a grandmother declines the burden of childcare, she somehow forfeits the right to see her grandchildren.

No one is owed childcare from their mother. End.

It does not matter whether she had help when raising you, other people’s sacrifices are not items on a balance sheet for you to cash in later. Older women are not public utilities, nor are their remaining years a communal resource to be allocated by their adult children. They are human beings with dignity, autonomy, and the absolute right to say no for any reason whatsoever.

They have already done the work. They raised their children. Their duty is complete.

But what is especially irritating is how often two completely separate things are deliberately conflated with the dreary refrain of “Well then she can’t expect visits from the grandchildren.”

This is a logical failure.

Childcare is work. It is labour intensive, draining, time consuming, and often physically demanding.

A family visit is not work. Bringing your children to see their grandmother, spending time together, sharing conversation and affection, that is family life. It is a relationship, not a work shift.

To collapse those into the same category is a false equivalence.

If you dislike your mother so much that visiting her feels like a burden, like work, then of course you definitely do NOT want her to shoulder the burden of your job of parenting. That would be quite mad, imagine wanting your children under the care of a woman you would prefer never to spend time with.

If seeing her is a chore and you consider it a job then asking her to work for you (generally for free) is absurd.

If she wants to see you more often than you can manage that is QUITE another matter, just see her when you can, like normal people do.

But if you love your mother, you will want to see her because she is family, because you enjoy her company, because relationships exist for their own sake.

That bond is not, and should never be, contingent on whether she performs even more physical labour after decades of already doing exactly that.

These are the three coherent possibilities - you visit your mother with the children because you love her and enjoy being together. Otherwise known as normal family life.

The second possiblity is that you do not want a relationship with your mother, in which case you would neither visit nor expect free labour from her.

The third possiblitiy is that your mother freely chooses to provide childcare, which is her decision alone and not something anyone is entitled to demand nor contingent upon anything else.

What is not logically defensible is weaponising access to grandchildren as punishment because she refused unpaid work. That's coercion dressed up badly in sentiment.

It's not complicated - family connection and visits are a relationship. Childcare is labour. These two concepts are not interchangeable, and one should never be made conditional on the other or compared to the other.

And finally those of you who claim the relationship with her grandchildren will be stronger if an exhausted older women is forced to do your job of parenting - maybe. Maybe not. Nobody has the slightest idea of how kids will feel about their grandparents or parents as they grow up and a lot of grandmothers would gladly relinquish a "closer" relationship with their grandchildren if it meant they could put their exhausted feet up after a lifetime of labour, or go out when they want as they want doing what they want, without first running it past their dictator daughters.

So, all of you who keep trying to confuse what is actually a very simple concept with this nonsense - just stop now.

If you are demanding child care from your mother and trying to couch it in any way as anything she "should" do because "reasons", trying to conflate famly visit with her doing unpaid work that she did for decades already - you're an awful person, and are perpetuating the misogyny of treating women like commodities to be shared.

Stop throwing a tantrum, get on with parenting your own kids and visit your mother, or don't. For many of you, not visiting would be doing her a favour.

I am an older woman who is happy to agree to the intensive labour of free childcare a couple of times a week because I choose to. An older woman who would instantly tell you exactly where to go if you ever asserted your entitlement or attempted to tell me what I "should" do with my own precious, irreplaceable and limited time on this earth. An older woman who will decline childcare if I want to, when I want to and be treated respectfully regardless.

Signed - an older woman who is sick of your entitled bullshit. We see you.

Stop it.

OP posts:
ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 10:37

UraniumFlowerpot · 15/04/2026 04:09

This reads quite black and white, reality is usually more nuanced.

no childcare => no visits, I agree this doesn’t make strict logical sense. But often grandparents express a sense of entitlement to family visits, and days out, may have quite specific ideas of what family time should look like and how children should behave. Those expectations concrete work for the parents, and a sense that instead of helping me with the existing challenges of raising kids you’re actually adding more.

More generally, the attitude around refusing to help is similar to the general growth of individualistic every-(wo)man-for-themselves philosophies. The urge to have children can be very deep and strong. It is natural and normal. In a cost of living crisis I find it cruel to glibly say to people who long for a family but struggle with the financial side “don’t have kids if you can’t support them yourselves”. We were never meant to live these very separate nuclear family lives, and economic changes of the last couple of decades have really crippled a lot of people who have tried hard to do everything right. It makes sense in that situation that people would reach out to their families for help, and that they would feel really quite hurt by a grandparent deciding that their multiple annual holidays and 5 spare bedrooms are more important than helping the parents through the difficult early childhood years and the impossible costs of even modest family housing.

So while I take your point that it’s not good to assume this is all that grandparents are for, and I understand that everyone quite reasonably has their own hopes and plans for their own lives that might not revolve around endless childcare for extended family… I do think you’ve been a bit harsh in some of what you’ve said.

ps I live far enough away from my own parents and from in-laws that I’ll never be asking any of them for any childcare whatsoever, but expect to put in enormous amounts of time, effort and money over the years to facilitate as much relationship as possible. So none of what I’ve said is defensiveness on my side, just trying to add a bit of empathy and nuance.

Very well put.

ThejoyofNC · 15/04/2026 10:37

Does being family mean nothing to some people anymore? All this transactional crap about not having a right to things blah blah blah. It's actually so depressing.

Ukefluke · 15/04/2026 10:39

And god forbid that a grand parent might need some help or company as their health declines.......chorus of
" Not your responsibility to assume care for a parent, you owe them nothing"

But seemingly grandparents owe a lot, namely child care.

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 15/04/2026 10:40

I think this is also very skewed to be from the grandparents' perspective and not considering wider family relationships too.

My son has never met one set of cousins and he last saw the other set in October. He's got an aunt and uncle who live 90m away who see him 2-3 times a year. They're having a child now and I can't see the meetings becoming more frequent.

It has become skewed that people get tied in to regular obligations at weekends, and just want the other time free. Living far away from each other doesn't help - if my sister and I lived close it would be easy to support each other and socialise, but we don't, so we don't.

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:41

You are right, no grandmother should be burdened with childcare she doesn't want to do.
But then no daughter or daughter in law should be burdened with visits, phonecalls, social help, life admin or any interaction with the grandparents that she doesn't want to do, and any request for this (unless offered freely) is as unreasonable as asking for childcare. So hope you don't need any help getting to your hospital appointments as you get older! Might be a bit lonely sat on your own avoiding doing anything for your own child's children, but never mind.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:42

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:41

You are right, no grandmother should be burdened with childcare she doesn't want to do.
But then no daughter or daughter in law should be burdened with visits, phonecalls, social help, life admin or any interaction with the grandparents that she doesn't want to do, and any request for this (unless offered freely) is as unreasonable as asking for childcare. So hope you don't need any help getting to your hospital appointments as you get older! Might be a bit lonely sat on your own avoiding doing anything for your own child's children, but never mind.

Here is a prime example of blackmail and threats. Lovely.

WutheringTights · 15/04/2026 10:43

Agree. But. If your daughter is running herself ragged, working, raising her kids, taking care of her home etc, with no support from her village, then do not add to her burden by demanding to see the grandchildren for the fun stuff at your convenience on your schedule. She will fit you in when she can around her other commitments. She deserves fun time with her kids more than you do - you’ve done your child rearing. And also, having declined to help her in her time of need, do not expect her to drop everything when you yourself need help. She is also perfectly at liberty to decline and only see you socially at her convenience.

Ukefluke · 15/04/2026 10:44

Notthegodofsmallthings · 15/04/2026 10:23

Research suggests caring for grandchildren may help reduce risks of developing dementia and cognitive decline in women. Something for the baby boomer generation to consider, along with the luck of the economic advantage they benefited from.

OP, you might benefit from talking to someone about why you despise younger women.

You might do the same about why you despise older women.

saraclara · 15/04/2026 10:45

Velumental · 15/04/2026 10:35

Of course I do, the days she has the kids she stays for tea, why does she have to be an important person to me? I'm certainly not important to her. This is a woman who noted after a year that every picture she had of my eldest was her and my husband with him. Shed literally take him from me and hand me the camera.

She's not my mother.

My husband is welcome to visit her daily if he wishes, he can go anytime, he can take the kids if he likes. Why is it on me? If you're not about taking the labour of women for your own benefit or whatever you're protesting about why is it on me to coddle my mil?

If she didn't provide childcare? My kids would go to after-school as they do any other day we both work, she has them because she insists. Infact I'm off with them this week and she is annoyed she's not still taking my eldest to his sports club, because I want to get to enjoy this time with him.

Why are women expected to provide for their mil and not their own sons? I literally will try to send my husband to his mum's of an evening or weekend and he's horrified

I didn't make it clear that my use of 'you' was intended to be plural and inclusive of your DH.
You were talking about the effort of all of you going to MIL and having to spend the full day there. So I tried to offer suggestions to make it less painful. I believe I even mentioned your DH as potentially being the one to have that conversation with her.

I'm not sure why you needed to say "of course.." as more usually pick ups and drop offs off children cared for by grandparents are fairly brief. So while it's nice that you hang around with her afterwards, I'm not sure why you expected me to assume that you did

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:45

WutheringTights · 15/04/2026 10:43

Agree. But. If your daughter is running herself ragged, working, raising her kids, taking care of her home etc, with no support from her village, then do not add to her burden by demanding to see the grandchildren for the fun stuff at your convenience on your schedule. She will fit you in when she can around her other commitments. She deserves fun time with her kids more than you do - you’ve done your child rearing. And also, having declined to help her in her time of need, do not expect her to drop everything when you yourself need help. She is also perfectly at liberty to decline and only see you socially at her convenience.

Perfect example of how people use the 'village' as one sided and a threat.

AprilMizzel · 15/04/2026 10:47

Another thread on here, I think, that I can't forget. The gist being there were eg 1000 people at the very successful father's funeral and about 10 at the mother's. The mother being someone who had lived for the family, given up a career, supported the husband and was therefore part of a unit. But never recognised for her contributions. It's not that she was forced to give up a career, other than generational expectation. It was the lack of recognition and respect. I've seen this so often. It haunts me.

IL went to founding group members funeral - she set up and ran two huge local clubs and both turned out for funeral. The family were stunned and had to move the chapple to the large one - and kept asking who they all were. IL said entire funeral speach DH gave was about him and his work - minimal mention of woman and to their outrage none of her work with the groups.

IL thought she was odd one initially then spoke to group members who been to her house - she didn't hide what she did trips away family just didn't register it other than Mum thing. Apparently DIL took DGC round and spoke to as many as possible to find out what she been up to. Huge local impact utterly oblivious family.

allthingsinmoderation · 15/04/2026 10:47

Are you suggesting that wether a grand parent helps care for their grandchild is a choice for them to make? i don't think that unreasonable as they will all have their personal wants,needs and personal circumstances.
Also children who are parents have their own wants,needs and personal circumstances regarding their children, also reasonable.
I don't think bargaining for access to children with caring duties is reasonable or bargaining for childcare with the promise of care in ageing is reasonable.
i think most people love and care for their children,parents and grandchildren and will want to help each other in life ,but all will have their personal circumstances affecting their choices and decisions. That's life.
Some people wont and other complicated factors may influence their choices.
Also, cirumstances change in peoples lives that affect their ability or desire to help each other in certain ways. I don't think we should judge others decisions.

Differentforgirls · 15/04/2026 10:48

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:41

You are right, no grandmother should be burdened with childcare she doesn't want to do.
But then no daughter or daughter in law should be burdened with visits, phonecalls, social help, life admin or any interaction with the grandparents that she doesn't want to do, and any request for this (unless offered freely) is as unreasonable as asking for childcare. So hope you don't need any help getting to your hospital appointments as you get older! Might be a bit lonely sat on your own avoiding doing anything for your own child's children, but never mind.

What an awful post.

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:48

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:42

Here is a prime example of blackmail and threats. Lovely.

Why is it blackmail and threats? I thought we were all agreeing women don't have to do things they don't want to do. I personally might feel obligated to help grandparents at a vulnerable time if they had helped me at a vulnerable time, but if they just let me get on with it I would feel free to just let them get on with it.
Why should daughters have to do things they don't want to do? That's misogynistic

LeeshaPaper · 15/04/2026 10:49

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 03:18

I agree with everything you've said. I've always made it clear to my son if he has children I will not be raising them or taking care of them all the time. I want to go on days out with them and just have fun, I've done my child- raising

Edited

First of all, I'm not suggesting ThatFairy has this relationship with her son but:

My DM always used to say this to me "don't think I'll be taking care of any children you have, (implication being I'm sick of raising kids)"
I was a teenager and had zero boyfriends. It made me feel really awful. I hadn't even thought about kids, never mind her looking after them.

Fast forward 20 years and I have two children she really loves, wishes she could see more of and I almost never ask her to mind. Perhaps twice in 10 years when I had a wedding to attend, always when my sister is with her and only ever once, one child, overnight.

Which might seem like I'm taking advantage leaving them for the wedding but my DH could have skipped the wedding and minded them. She loved the overnight.

I don't know what I'm trying to say but her unnecessary attitude made me feel awful and actually doesn't reflect me at the time or me now so why did she even say it??

Differentforgirls · 15/04/2026 10:50

WutheringTights · 15/04/2026 10:43

Agree. But. If your daughter is running herself ragged, working, raising her kids, taking care of her home etc, with no support from her village, then do not add to her burden by demanding to see the grandchildren for the fun stuff at your convenience on your schedule. She will fit you in when she can around her other commitments. She deserves fun time with her kids more than you do - you’ve done your child rearing. And also, having declined to help her in her time of need, do not expect her to drop everything when you yourself need help. She is also perfectly at liberty to decline and only see you socially at her convenience.

Just what the OP was talking about. Blackmailing your parents.

beAsensible1 · 15/04/2026 10:52

DontOpenTheFourthDrawer · 15/04/2026 07:25

In the UK its now widely accepted that parents have a never ending duty towards their children but those children have no reciprocal responsibility towards their parents.

Really? I guess my parents missed that memo then because they provided no childcare whatsoever despite using their parents as childcare 5 days a week when I was a child.

Its not "widely accepted" at all

is this not a sign that maybe they don't enjoy childcare?

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:53

The 'blackmail and threats' people are really outing themselves here as people who feel entitled to the labour of their children (who didn't choose to be born) supporting them and visiting them in their old age, and are outraged at the suggestion that this might not happen, or that they should morally help others if they expect help themselves

ThatFairy · 15/04/2026 10:53

LeeshaPaper · 15/04/2026 10:49

First of all, I'm not suggesting ThatFairy has this relationship with her son but:

My DM always used to say this to me "don't think I'll be taking care of any children you have, (implication being I'm sick of raising kids)"
I was a teenager and had zero boyfriends. It made me feel really awful. I hadn't even thought about kids, never mind her looking after them.

Fast forward 20 years and I have two children she really loves, wishes she could see more of and I almost never ask her to mind. Perhaps twice in 10 years when I had a wedding to attend, always when my sister is with her and only ever once, one child, overnight.

Which might seem like I'm taking advantage leaving them for the wedding but my DH could have skipped the wedding and minded them. She loved the overnight.

I don't know what I'm trying to say but her unnecessary attitude made me feel awful and actually doesn't reflect me at the time or me now so why did she even say it??

I think the reason I've said it to my son is because I wanted to help deter him from having kids too young. It was actually a fear of mine- a teenage pregnancy, and me being left to do all the childcare. It's not uncommon where we live. Thankfully he's turned out quite sensible

Luckyingame · 15/04/2026 10:53

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 10:00

You sound really pleasant. I expect you will end up a very lonely old woman if your husband dies before you.

Thanks!
I actually cannot wait for being a "lonely old woman".
😉

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 10:54

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:42

Here is a prime example of blackmail and threats. Lovely.

No, more that if you make your relationships with your children and grandchildren transactional and show no genuine love for them and view any support provided to them as an imposition or “burden” then you can’t be too surprised when eventually they give up on trying to have a normal family relationship with you where everyone just naturally supports each other and there is genuine affection, and instead adopt your own transactional approach and treat you in the same manner you have treated them. After all, why would you expect them to “burden themselves” with supporting other family members?

It’s not a “threat”. It’s just the natural consequence of not investing any effort whatsoever into having close family relationships and repeatedly telling your family members that you have no desire or obligation to put yourself out for them in any way. How would you then expect for them to have any desire to do similar for you when you’ve spent years making it clear that you consider family supporting each other to be a “burden” and not acceptable?

It seems odd and very entitled to expect from others something that you have told others is totally unreasonable to expect of you. If you frame family relationships in this transactional and unnatural way then you can hardly complain when others in return eventually adopt the same method of interacting with you, exactly as you’ve requested.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:54

Terfymcnamechange · 15/04/2026 10:48

Why is it blackmail and threats? I thought we were all agreeing women don't have to do things they don't want to do. I personally might feel obligated to help grandparents at a vulnerable time if they had helped me at a vulnerable time, but if they just let me get on with it I would feel free to just let them get on with it.
Why should daughters have to do things they don't want to do? That's misogynistic

Because you spell it as a direct result of the grandparents not providing care. It's a consequence, a threat of one at least.

What about the fact the grandma herself brought her own children up, did everything for them, looking after when ill, school, taxi runs, nursed them when ill, held b'day parties etc, that seems to mean sod all with the now adult children who then become mums themselves. All that care, love and time means nothing to them because they don't want to provide childcare for the grandchildren too.

Nice attitude eh? Yeah, fuck em in their old age, fuck em. They didn't provide free childcare so ner-ner.

Whyamiherenow · 15/04/2026 10:56

Life isn’t transactional. Our parents help us (yes with childcare but they all still have long holidays and many childcare free days. It’s not slavery) and we help them too (with life admin they struggle with / heavy jobs / cooking meals for them / money for them etc). Staying alive is a team effort really. Nobody demands but we are all just good at different things and abilities.

However, the person in our family who helps us with childcare the most is grandad. He was a much more hands on parent than either of our mums and this has continued in to grandparenthood. I’ve never understood the societal obsession with women providing childcare in general.

Mangelwurzelfortea · 15/04/2026 10:56

While I fully agree that the burden of childcare falls disproportionately on women, and that in itself is unfair and creates an unequal society, I don't fully agree with the OP. There's a certain amount of 'pass it forward' that goes on with childcare. We now live in a society where most families need two incomes - in a way that wasn't the case when Baby Boomers were young parents, for the middle classes anyway. It was perfectly possible to live well off one income so lots of women were SAHMs - as was the societal expectation. That isn't the case now, young mothers mainly have to work but the burden of childcare still falls on their shoulders and the cost of paid childcare is extremely high. I do think grandparents should help out if they can. Things were easier for them - and I know some people will argue that they weren't, and obviously they weren't for everyone, but as a general rule, they were. If you can't rely on your own mum to give you a hand when you need one, who can you rely on?

I had no help (in any way) from my parents and didn't bother asking as they'd have said no anyway, plus they'd have been hopeless with my kids. I wouldn't trust them to look after a cat. I was parentified from a very young age and did a lot of the work in raising my own younger siblings - but that's another story for another time. I'm looking forward to being a grandma (although not too soon as my kids are teens!) and will be as involved as they want me to be.

Happyjoe · 15/04/2026 10:56

ProjectHailMary · 15/04/2026 10:54

No, more that if you make your relationships with your children and grandchildren transactional and show no genuine love for them and view any support provided to them as an imposition or “burden” then you can’t be too surprised when eventually they give up on trying to have a normal family relationship with you where everyone just naturally supports each other and there is genuine affection, and instead adopt your own transactional approach and treat you in the same manner you have treated them. After all, why would you expect them to “burden themselves” with supporting other family members?

It’s not a “threat”. It’s just the natural consequence of not investing any effort whatsoever into having close family relationships and repeatedly telling your family members that you have no desire or obligation to put yourself out for them in any way. How would you then expect for them to have any desire to do similar for you when you’ve spent years making it clear that you consider family supporting each other to be a “burden” and not acceptable?

It seems odd and very entitled to expect from others something that you have told others is totally unreasonable to expect of you. If you frame family relationships in this transactional and unnatural way then you can hardly complain when others in return eventually adopt the same method of interacting with you, exactly as you’ve requested.

Total bullshit. Sorry.
Why does not providing endless free childcare mean there the relationship of the grown up children ends? The only people being transactional are the grown ups who expect grandparents free childcare threatening no relationship.