Benefits v Defence Lord Robertson

[Wednesdayschild87]

Lord Robertson’s Speech… seriously does anyone care?? He’s laid out the fact that as a nation we can’t carry on like this… he said we can’t afford to keep throwing money at benefits whilst leaving our country defences I’m actually shocked no one has come out and spoken on this matter before. I’m incredulous.

We don't need the ongoing help, only the acute crisis care. I can do the garden, and do, but slower than I did. But as we consider relocating from the the 4-bed detached to a two or three bed terrace, I do actively want the value from the downsize to be considered.

I cannot be the only 70 yo who thinks we ought to make life a little easier for our DC of family starting age. My DC of 27 is really rather lovely, kind, intelligent, thoughtful and pretty good looking (yes, I'm massively on his team) . But the clever, intelligent young women that he would like to meet are clicking on other profiles.

We’d all die cos there’d be no one working to issue the benefits

I would genuinely hope that if everyone woke up with CFS, then there would be actual proper research into it, because there is fuck all now.

I agree, but it could not happen in time to save you.

But to go back to the topic, We Need to spend more on defence. It is humiliating to send HMS Dragon, the only option, to the Med very slowly, and then to see her breakdown for lack of crew drinking water. Which is what happened. That is shameful planning. MoD and the Treasury are totally to blame.

it isn’t just media whipping up a frenzy though is it when people can often name individuals abusing the system and there are documented court cases of benefits fraud? And the answer the actual question being posed on this thread the documented that our military is not in a position where it could protect us from
invasion and we have a benefits bill higher that it has been in all of history.

Some people who claim to know individuals who are abusing the system don't seem to know how PIP/DLA even works and at times, the difference between them. I take them with a pinch of salt, to be honest.

Nope, some of the people to blame are in the Lords or on the after dinner speech cct, rolling in millions.

They sold off the dockyards, cut warships, down graded the spec of ships to such an extent that the type45 class ships would shut down when they tried to get to full power.... built Aircraft carriers but no budget for the planes...

But the real people to blame are us, the UK electorate, we voted for cuts in defence, anyone with half an eye on the world around them saw the downsizing of the military but we still voted in successive Govts inc Labour .... who promised to slash defence.... the Tories inc Badenoch promised to cut troop numbers even further in their 2024 manifesto.

Do you never stop to think how suspicious the idea that someone committing benefit fraud is openly sharing that, their medical history and their financial information with acquaintances, work colleagues, neighbours, mums in the playground etc?

What’s far more likely is someone sees a snapshot of someone else’s life, can’t understand it and so fills in the gaps themselves. Putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with 73.

I ve always thought this about MN and the media in general.... they want benefit cuts for things they do not claim.

So the 30hrs almost universal free childcare, universal free prescriptions for the over 60s, triple lock, WFA and all that SENDs support... the growth in diagnosis and the subsequent costs to us all.
There are millions of pensioners/over 60s who are millionaires, why are they getting all this free stuff and way above inflation pension increases?

That little lot above costs us over 50% of the defence budget....

Benefits bill will always be higher, inflation? an aging population... all those fat/unhealthy people you see in their 30s and 40s... they hit their 50s and end up costing us a fortune in healthcare and disabilities.

As I've said before I find this really odd. I mean, no one's going to say "I receive disability benefits because I shit myself".

I know my neighbour has mental health problems but I know very little. I've met her when she looks totally fine. But I've also had to listen to her screaming

Let's add to your list all the people who wanted to scrap trident.
They seem to have gone quite quiet 🤫

But not only were the dockyards closed, British Steel was sold off, and eventually closed.
I think there is one steel plant left in the UK

If you think about China as a potential threat.
What a way to make a country vulnerable to attack, buy up their steel and fuel plants. Then close them down!

WTF were our Governments thinking?

@Needspaceforlego

WTF were our Governments thinking?

Which takes us back to the thread title...

But to answer your question probably a combination of not understanding the strategic importance of some industries, an urge to sell off the family silver for cash, and also an urge to satisfy an electorate that largely regarded defence as irrelevant.

To prove you very slightly wrong, @Alexandra2001 I'm with you all the way on trimming back some of the benefits for pensioners, despite my age!

We were fine with DH paying for a pre-payment certificate before he was 60; he's still working a bit, consulting with the company he started, at 70 so he can still afford £112 pa and it will still offer him remarkable value.

We don't need the WFA and were chilled when it was canned; idiocy to reinstate it up to £35k when half that amount would have been enough.

The most sensible occupant of the pension portfolio of the last 10 years, Steve Webb, thinks we need a few more years (but only a handful) of the triple lock before it wants scaling back. As any increase next year will take it over the (frozen) income tax threshold, some of the gain will be clawed back in tax.

The aircraft carriers were a (failed) bribe to Scottish voters in Rosyth. And have you followed the saga of the CalMac ferry construction? Hard to believe that British engineering ever dominated the world now.

Its like they weren't looking at the big picture. It was the 80s WW2 was becoming a distant memory and the cold war coming to an end.

Slightly of topic, the thing that made me realise how vulnerable the UK had become was learning more about the Normandy Landings, and a metal harbour that was floated across the channel in sections and built within 3 days of the landings.
You can't do that if you don't have a manufacturing base.

You re in a minority, most pensioners, esp if it means having a go at Labour (one very pro Tory poster on MN was up in arms about this as well as Welfare reform)

Not sure about the bribe for Rosyth, there must have been huge expense building these ships across 6, yes 6 shipyards before assembly in Scotland.

My point though is Govts have not funded defence, the AC's were fully funded in 2010...but along came Austerity and it was scaled back, same as the type 45's, cut from 9 to 6 (by Labour) spec cut back by the Tories... a friend of mine earns £600 per day, working on the "improvements" for these ships...

Aren't some Scottish ferries built in Turkey?

@Papyrophile We’d have been recipients of WFA if it had been limited to an income of around £12k each, ie the level of the NEW State Pension, which we are too old to receive, so our income is less, just above the Pension Credit cutoff

At 80, DH feels the cold, he has a heart condition that means he rests quite a bit, and as for many older people, our heating bills are more expensive than in younger years so we are grateful for it. However, I thought it a bit of a jump from only those on means tested benefits to £35K.

I'm more than capable of having a pop at all governments @Alexandra2001 , local and national! But it's their approach to SMEs that really ignite the old booster jets.

That said, our small family business has been beavering away keeping the old Type 23s going so we love them, and have been saddened to see them sailed away to scrap yards.

I completely sympathise with your situation @Seymour5 and I don't have you and your DH's situation at the forefront for cutbacks, especially as your DH has a heart condition. But I do know quite a few people on index-linked public sector pensions who frankly don't need all the public assistance to which they are entitled.

Yes I think one was built in Turkey.

The issues with the ones built in Scotland seem to be a catalogue of design screw ups.
To big for the ports, experimental gas engines, the ferry's have sleeping quarters for the crews, someone told me, the Glen Sannox was initially designed without that extra deck.
Of course you can't just add the extra deck in, a ship needs to be balanced so it was a massive change to add it in.

Yep Thats what i thought As long as they arent near you and yours eh.
Bit nimbyish

There indeed are a million jobs where you arent responsible for someone elses life. It hasnt stopped ppl from suggesting care homes in the past as a job prospect though.

For all those that keep saying that the benefits such as bus passes, prescriptions for the elderly should be means tested, should all benefits be means tested? Why for example do SEND children get transport to school when many parents have cars and can take them especially if they have a mobility car? The whole system needs an overhaul but just what pensioners get.

There is a thread running right now where OP had a job offer pulled when they found out she has bipolar. Several posters on the thread saying they would never employ someone with something like bipolar, others saying they would not employ someone on anti-psychotics, and another saying they would not employ someone on anti-depressants.
It seems many here want people that have MH issues to be forced off benefits, but wont want to work with them or employ them eithr.

Agree. Why target the poorest and most vulnerable in society? OK,I know there is a small percentage who are milking the system,but they are in the minority. If you believe the likes of Nick Ferrari and Richard Littlejohn,99% of people on sickness or disability benefits are faking it.