Benefits v Defence Lord Robertson

[Wednesdayschild87]

Lord Robertson’s Speech… seriously does anyone care?? He’s laid out the fact that as a nation we can’t carry on like this… he said we can’t afford to keep throwing money at benefits whilst leaving our country defences I’m actually shocked no one has come out and spoken on this matter before. I’m incredulous.

Also people forgot that as the state pension age increases more people in that 60 plus age range are now classed as part of the working age population wheras historically they would have been classed in the pensioner group. We haven’t got any healthier so lots of those older workers will be sick & disabled.

They should take child maintenance into account when calculating benefits and there should be no option not to pay.

“The number of people aged 50 to 64 who are out of work and claiming benefits has increased by 600,000 – or 43 per cent – to 1.99 million, from 1.4 million just before the Covid lockdown in March 2020”

“This has been fuelled by soaring numbers of older workers citing long-term sickness, which has risen by 21 per cent since 2015, according to the research by the Centre for Social Justice (CSJ),”

As I said we haven’t got healthier

www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2024/oct/baby-boomers-living-longer-poorer-health-previous-generations

A lot of UC especially the ones you see in the media are so much due to high rent.

I agree @LeopardsRockingham. High rent is often the only reason why working people qualify for UC. My SDIL and 2 of my nieces get UC, and none of them would be entitled to it if they were in social housing instead of expensive private rents. I'd love to know how much of the spend on benefits ends up going to private landlords.

I'm retired now, but worked in welfare rights for 20 years. In almost every UC statement I've seen, housing costs is the single biggest item. The average rent for a 2-bed property where I live is £1400 a month. The rent for a 2-bed council property is a little over £100pw, so a bit more than £400 a month.

Building more social housing would see a near immediate reduction in the amount spent on benefits and would more than pay for itself in the medium-long term. And reducing the demand for private sector rentals could lead to a reduction in the cost of renting privately, unless landlords just decided to sell up and get out of the game.

And if landlords sold up in significant numbers, property prices would fall and more people would be able to afford to buy. It seems like a win/win to me.

I watched a really interesting podcast on youtube about how the housing crisis was the 'everything' crisis. It really made sense.
The inflation of our house prices means that people can't afford to buy or rent them with regular wages. So people get top up's to their wages, we pay private landlords a small fortune in housing benefit.

We should never have increased our population by so much unless we had enough houses and public services.
I know other things have forced demand up such as more people living alone.
BTL didn't increase the supply or demand (same no of houses and same no of people) but it did change the dynamic of the market.

The UK has been pretty poor and in decline for about 50 years now. We have masked this by selling off our industries, our council houses, our gold which gave us a cash inflow in the short term. Now we have nothing left to sell and house price 'growth' which we used to prop up everything is causing lots of problems on it's own. Our police force has far less numbers than it used to have and that is to police a much higher population. This is why low level crime is rife now and not being dealt with.

The UK is currently living a lifestyle it cannot afford. We can keep going borrowing each month, paying more interest each month until it all cracks. Or we can stop now and face hardship and try and fix it. It will be ugly, it will be painful but either way it is coming. I reckon each govt will keep kicking the can down the road until eventually the markets don't want to lend to the UK anymore or the interest rates get so high it's just not viable. In the meantime our police, NHS, education will all go down hill further.

No point arguing over which welfare will be cut. Be easier and quicker to say what will be kept.

The UK pays higher interest than Greece now (remember when they needed bailed out). Well now the UK is considered a higher risk than Greece. Why because our politicians keep spending and keep borrowing. If they actually took action the markets would respond well and cut interest rates which would help. However it will take big, decisive decisions and will involve cuts to everything.

Remember it was not that long ago there was no welfare system at all or any NHS system at all. I'm talking 80 years ago. The UK has been in decline for about 50 years. We cannot afford our welfare or NHS. That's the cold hard truth. Not anymore. Everyone is shrieking about how we can't cut this and that. I promise you they can and will. The UK is not a rich country anymore. We have a small number of very rich people and the rest are average to poor. We have the highest inflation in the G7 and the worst growth. We have been identified as been the most vunerable to the Iran war because we import so much food and energy.

All these arguments about which benefits should be cut is like fiddling while Rome burns.

Nobody with debilitating anxiety really needs an incentive to continue feeling that way.

And working does not help many people magically feel less anxious. In fact, it often makes it a lot worse.

I lost my job due to my MH. I have found it hard to get another job also due to my MH.
A lot of the people I go to support groups with seem to be managing fine on the surface, but that is because demands are low. Add in jobseeking (which is grim for everyone right now) or a job, then they fall to pieces and become very unwell. Work does not always make things better.

What’s the worst that can happen to you with anxiety re working?

Tell us you know nothing about debilitating anxiety without saying you know nothing about debilitating anxiety.

I think the real problem is the number of young people who are claiming disability benefits. 1 in 8 children in Britain is now reported to have a long term illness or disability. This is completely absurd. We have a huge over diagnosis problem, with far too many people claiming disability benefits for things that wouldn’t have been classed as a disability in the past (at least not in terms of it being an excuse not to get a job!).

Why can we not explore why that is, instead of just cutting support?

I agree with all that apart from the decline has been for 50 years. It really hasn't, it is still known that when Tony Blair came in they inherited a great economy with a small surplus, low debt etc. At the time of just before the financial crash we had similar GDP per capita as much of the US, now we are at around 25th for the world and about to be overtaken by countries like Poland which we used to think of as poor. It is terrible decisions by our leaders over 25ish years that had caused this, we have been much less resilient to shocks such as COVID and now Iran due to their lack of planning and buying votes with benefits and other bribes (ie with our own money) - two of my children even got given a child trust fund when they were born by the government FFS.

To explore what exactly?

When a person with some minor difficulties can declare themselves disabled, without much objective diagnosis needed, and get benefits in the amount equivalent to low paying job, why would this person work instead? It's different for those who have a chance to build a solid career, but for NMW jobs there is no incentive at all.

Look around - children are given screens before they even turn one, I constantly see toddlers in prams glued to phones. It's just easier for parents. Of course these kids will grow up and fit ASD/ADHD criteria - they don't have an opportunity to learn social skills or develop ability to focus on something for longer than tiktok video.

There is nothing to explore, it's on a surface. What should be happening is drastic cut of benefits and reduced taxation at the bottom. Supported by massive social housing building funded by savings from welfare cuts.

How exactly would you ‘explore why this is’? And does it matter if the bill is unaffordable?

I expect people have figured out that they can get extra money if their child is classed as disabled, and so they are all rushing to get a diagnosis. The figures suggest that we have an over diagnosis problem. If everyone and his dog is neurodivergent, then it at some point it, ceases to be a disability. It is simply the new normal.

The best treatment for debilitating anxiety is forcing yourself to do things. In small steps, but do them. Avoiding things makes light anxiety debilitating. And our welfare system fully enables this.
Funny that people in was zones don't experience this debilitating anxiety.

I do not believe that at all. I know a few parents of kids with ASD and ADHD, and they are not in it for the money.
Their kids struggle, and the parents struggle. They are fucking wiped out.
One mum I know was fighting to get her young teen DS assessments for ADHD and help from CAHMS. She went home one day to find him hanging from a ligature in his bedroom window. She could see him from the street. He was a kid, and should have had his whole life ahead of him.

What work place will let you do small steps and build up to full time?
Debilitating anxiety is still an issue in your own home, doing normal day to day things. That is why it is debilitating.
People with anxiety disorders are anxious in their own homes and safe spaces.

You might be right. I just remember witnessing the strikes and powercuts in the seventies and feel like it started there.

This whole thread is depressing. People arguing about how those with anxiety can't work. Nobody seems to be acknowledging the fact that this is irrelevant.

Whether it helps to work or not (re anxiety) the UK is still broke and we still can't afford to keep paying for all this welfare. So the cold hard truth is work or starve.
The outrage when you suggest this though.

Welfare needs to be for people with severe physical and mental disabilities ie downs syndrome. That is all we can afford. Everyone else needs to work or support themselves.

So you would allow an asylum seeker or someone seeking immigration not via a legal route to join our armed forces, for them to have insider knowledge about our defence strategies/planned operations etc and not see a problem with this?

Lots of people find it difficult to jobs for all sorts of reasons. What about stupid people? Or uneducated people? Or shy people? Or people who are poor communicators? etc etc etc. Should they all get disability allowance too?

Finding it difficult to get a job isn’t a reason to stay on disability benefits if you have the physical capability to work.

Literally all retail and hospitality allow part time work. Given employer NI changes they even welcome part timers.

Re your previous post - you're proving the point. Our health, education, police, defence are so underfunded because of ever expanding welfare bill. Redirect part of this money to NHS support incl MH and we'd see some improvements.

2.6 jobseekers to every vacancy. Where are the jobs you want all the anxious people to get?

"Stupid people"? Really? What do you mean by that?

The DWP can assess people and say they are not fit for work.. and not being able to find work is not a reason and never has been.
But you also ignore the fact there is a huge barrier to finding work for disabled people, and on MN they seem to be blamed for being in that situation.

I have seen ads for retail on NMW and they want 3 years of experience.
The employers want the best of the best.

2.6 people to every job.
Well take on some more people to process and evict the illegal immigrants.

The UK doesn't have enough work for its own young people why allow more illegal immigrants to stay.
Get them processed and removed ASAP.