To wonder whether the term “pick me” is misogynist?

[CruCru]

My daughter mentioned “pick me girls” a few months ago and, since then, I keep seeing references to them on here and other places. This is rather a new concept to me (I am firmly middle aged and was young in the 90s and 2000s) but,, looking back, I am sure that I knew a couple of women who would perhaps have been described as “pick me”.

One, in particular, was really fun when it was just us but would be hard work when there were men around. She would also tell me how many men fancied her.

Another was a bit of a jellyfish - you’d be bobbing along happily and then suddenly you’d be stung - but only when there were men around.

Perhaps it is just that, where once we would have said “God, Celine was being so annoying”, now we would say “Celine was being a bit of a “pick me””.

Would you say that the term “pick me” is misogynistic? I think there are “pick me boys too”.

It’s intended to be derogatory and mocking of women’s behaviour and whatever it is, what it certainly isn’t, is an attempt to understand and address why some young women feel as though they need to pander to and appease men or why their sense of self-worth is tied up in male approval or having a boyfriend - which are ultimately the salient issues. Women don’t behave this way in a vacuum and being derisory about it, intending to shame, and treating it as something which women are to solely blame for, is ultimately internalised misogyny.

I agree that it's misogynistic.

However, I also think that the women who behave in ways that might attract that label also have a lot of internalised misogyny.

Yes, I think it is. The two women you describe sound annoying and unpleasant, but this new thing of calling women who for whatever reason seem to like male company 'pick-mes' is misogynistic IMO and one never hears it applied to men

Often the "pick me" girls are the misogynists, aren't they?

They put down other women, in an attempt to appeal to men. That's my experience anyway.

Interesting takes above that I hadn’t really considered.

Back in the day there were forums on the Ms Magazine website and they referred to such women as TOTP (Tools of the Patriarchy).

I agree that no behaviour occurs in a vacuum and frankly, women can’t do right for doing wrong.

It was used a couple of times by year 4 boys at our school last year and head came down on like a ton of bricks. He spoke to that class, and to the whole school in assembly and put it in a message to parents on the app about how it was an entirely unacceptable phrase to use and that sexism and misogyny have no place in the school.

Some men do it too, “You’re so easygoing, not like the other girls,” or whatever 🤮

I dislike any term that describes women as girls.

I have had a few run ins on here with posters who see nothing wrong with describing themselves and other adult women as girls. And interestingly a few days ago I was reading the account of the trial of a group of icehockey players in Canada who were accused of an horrendous gang rape on young woman. She was put through an inhuman 7 day crossexamination. And one of the points that the defence lawyers were incensed about was that she persistently described her attackers as "men". Which they were. But it suited the defence to describe them as " boys". Because it was conducive to presenting a narrative that somehow these were just young boys who didn't know any better and just got carried away. But the young woman stood firm in her accurate use of " men" because language really matters .

And similarly this term which describes adult women as girls, and in a pretty contemptuous way, is not an acceptable one.

I've only recently been hearing 'pick me', then yesterday I came across this in-depth BBC piece on teenage girls. Both encouraging and depressing!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62je1g000eoThe BBC in-depth; Teenage girls

Yeah I think it is.

Although I use it a bit differently to mean when I’m being overly woke, as a joke between me and dd.

@Shallotsaresmallonions that can be the case - that it’s used to describe women acting through internalised misogyny- but it’s still a misogynistic term as it’s focussing only on the woman and not societal attitudes behind that behaviour. Ie that being a man and acting in a male way/ being friends with men is more desirable.

No. I do not think it is implicitly. It describes a behavior. The behavior of some women to put men before anything and everything including common sense and their best interests all for male validation.

Uabu. It’s not misogyny. It’s a behaviour that is well
recognised.

Does every negative thing a woman ever does have to be labelled as misogyny if it’s called out?

I thought the point of "pick me girls" were that they are the girls with internalised misogyny who will therefore prioritise men's experience of them as the most important?

I don't think there's an equivalent "pick me boy" because men are the oppressors and women are the oppressed group.

I don't love the term as it seems to focus blame on the woman who's responding to living in a misogynistic society, but equally I can see that using it is also a way for women to survive living in that society in a different way.

I actually find it a really useful term that encapsulates a type of behaviour that im convinced exists. When I first heard it, it really resonated and I reflected on my own past behaviour and why I'd done things I did.
I think its also useful to help women make sense of some of the things other women do that are hurtful or destructive (supporting men against them, ignoring them in favour of men etc) So I don't have a problem with it as a concept. However I'm not someone who believes any criticism or negative observation about a womans behaviour is misogyny.

Or the girls who realise that their personal interests are better served by allying with men than women. I don't think a woman needs to value men more highly to display this behaviour, just know which side her bread appears to be buttered at that time.

I think it's complex. I think that often being a "pick me" girl really means someone is competitive with other girls/ women in order to gain male attention and is really bourne out of internalised misogyny and a flawed sense of female and personal worth. But I think that not being able to see that as a product of a male centered society rather than a character flaw is also kind of misogynistic. However, I think it's reasonable to accept that women or girls who fall into this category can also be quite harmful to other women and girls so in that respect I find it useful having a term that captures an unhealthy pattern of behaviour and encourages reflection.

Pick me was originally a term that critiqued internalised misogyny. It refers to a woman who considers herself ‘not like other girls’. She has internalised the view that women are vapid, shallow and vain, silly creatures. Knowing herself to have a complex inner life, she assumes she must be exceptional and, in terms of personality, more like a man than a girl. It can also refer to a woman who crafts her entire personality around what she thinks a man would like: ‘I love cooking for my man, unlike feminists’, ‘I love anal, unlike these frigid bitches’, ‘women should wear more makeup/less makeup, stay home/pursue a career’ blah blah blah.

It’s a great term that articulates a real phenomenon. It sounds like a lot of kids have misunderstood it though, and that’s a shame.

It describes a type of behaviour, that we have (almost) all witnessed that is exclusive to women.

So, no, it is not misogynistic in my view.

Me too. I’m definitely a recovering Pick Me.

Probably a much nicer way of describing someone, they would have been called a slapper back in my day 🙄.

i most often see it used in a very literal sense on the relationships board when women are told not to go the "pick me dance" when their DH/DP is having an affair and "can't decide" which woman he wants (ffs!) often the wife or partner will turn themselves inside out or be pressured to turn themselves inside out by DH/DP to prove that they are the ones most 'deserving' of the man's attentions (again ffs) hence don't do the pick me dance

Is this your first time on mumsnet? Of course it all comes down to the "patriarchy" . Us women don't have any autonomy, we are all conditioned to behave as men pleasers, didn't you know 😂

Maybe I’m wrong but I thought the phrase originally came from a speech by Meredith Grey on the show ‘Grey’s Anatomy’ where she asks Derek to ‘pick me’ over another woman (I don’t watch the show so I don’t know who).

So I originally thought the phrase ‘pick me girl’ was about women who go after men who are already in relationships, because it gives them a sense of validation to be actively chosen over another women.

But it sounds from this thread like the meaning has maybe become broader than that?

There is actually a podcast called Mr Pick Me and the Man Hater where I interpret its meaning to be that the man is a ‘pick me’ for expressing feminist views in order to ingratiate himself with women. I would interpret it similarly in women but trying to ingratiate themselves with men.

The way I’ve had it described is that a “pick me” puts down other women to win men’s approval. I don’t think that they necessarily want to date the men - they just want to be seen as “best” out of the group.

When I first started my job out of university (back in the dark ages), we had a team building sports thing and one of the women from another department loudly told one of the guys that the work “girlies” wouldn’t know how to kick a football with the side of their feet and then demonstrated to him how she could do it “correctly”. That was a pick me thing to do.