Is it normal for primary schools to expect so many payments?

[ThisRealFawn]

I have twins in Yr 5 in Primary School and recently (in the past 2 years) there are just so many things to pay for. I appreciate that the school are taking the children out to do things but it’s all at a cost to the parents that we just cannot afford easily in these pricy times. This is a state school. Not private btw.

last term we paid for:

music lessons x2 = £130
forest school x2 = £40 (plus £100 ish worth of weather appropriate clothing)
residential x2 = £300 (plus all the stuff they needed)
costumes for school play = £40 ish

so like £700 ish

this upcoming term already we have paid

music lessons x2 = £130
weekly ice skating x2 = £130
Sherwood forest trip x2 = £60

so another £300+ already before the term has even started

Is this normal? How are people affording this. Like I said - I’m glad for the children they get to do this stuff but I don’t like the assumption that everybody will just happily keep paying for whatever the school decide to arrange.

if you’re entitled to school meals I think you get it all paid for but we don’t qualify even though we aren’t high earners.

we haven’t done anything really over the Easter hols because I literally have had £100 left to last me 2 weeks. Could have done with that £300 I’ve just had to pay really 😂

Is this normal now for primary schools or is our school unusual for this?

Just say no.... I said no to the yr6 residential camp not because we couldn't afford it but because it was ridiculously overpriced and not inclusive at all. So my oldest didn't go and my second child also knew what to expect and didn't go. It'll be the same for the other 2. I'm not being a mug thanks.
For the other stuff you can choose what you want them to do. One of my kids go to the local authority music hub and it's free. She also gets private lessons. I wouldn't pay for anything more at school unless I felt it was clearly beneficial to her. Ice skating is frankly ridiculous.

But really it is about parents standing up for themselves and saying no. I know of a few families who really struggled with the cost of the residential trip. But they felt they had no choice and paid it. That shouldn't happen. We are comfortable financially but we said no because it was the right response given the ridiculous price quoted. Given we are a small minority on this, school will not change its ways ..

personally I don’t get that attitude. The missing out does stay with you.

I wasn’t allowed to go on the French exchange when I was a teen and 30 years later I’m still salty about it (as I keep reminding my mum!). It knocked my confidence a lot not having a shared memory with everyone else.

It sounds like your children attend a school that likes to offer a lot of activities. This is something many complain about schools not doing, but you seem to now be seeing the consequence of schools doing this.

My children's school offer paid for music lessons. It's run externally, parents book on if they want their children to do it. The school can fund PP children potentially for them to have lessons. This is similar to my niece's school, hers is a bigger company and group lessons but still requires parents to pay.
The only music lesson that was free was a recorder club, African drum club (bongos) and ukulele club which one teacher did over a few years (teachers often have to volunteer to run a club for a term where my kids are)
There is no forest school. The reception children get outside time similar but not a specific set up and only need coats and wellies.
Trip wise a lot of trips offered are free/low cost. Both my kids have gone to various museums which involve no entry fee. Some charge for a workshop, but it's usually transport there that costs. We also live in a scenic area so other trips have involved walks and pointing out geographical features or knowing the history of the area. These again can be free if walking directly or a small fee for a bus. However these trips may be seen as less interesting to children.
We haven't had to pay for swimming as that comes out of the PE budget, but I know other schools charge for the bus there.

I really think it depends who the school attracts as even within a town there is a lot of variation. The school my kids attend does have a tricky catchment compared to another on the outskirts of the town which attracts more affluent parents. My friends children attend this school and it does seem to offer a lot more (and I do wonder if I should have tried to get mine into it).

That's nice but it was obviously a priority for Staffordshire at the time and they had the funding to do so.

We are in a very different funding landscape now.

It was discussed with our children and because they have been brought up to pretty sensible, they actually agreed with our stance. Had they been desperate to go I may have given in. Instead we discussed other experiences they could do with the same amount and of course the moral position underpinning our stance. I really didn't see how the school could justify asking people to fork out £400 for a 3 days residential in a small impoverished town in the North West. I found this entirely bonkers. Especially as the activity programme was one that my youngest would most likely not cope with (or any other child with special needs such as autism or physical limitations like my youngest). Madness. Just take the kids on a camping trip building wonderful memories instead of this nonsense.
Anyway my kids are not traumatised in the least.

Fair enough. At my kids school, every child went for week and it was a big deal so if a child wasn’t allowed to go they would have missed the buzzing excitement before and all the chatter after. We do a big spread in the yearbook about it and tonnes of photos so it would have been a constant reminder of a child hadn’t been allowed to go. I expect other schools do do it differently. No child would have been excluded due to financing. The PTA would have covered any child who really could have afforded it.

I would say that's pretty unusual.

Sounds laudable but the reality is that behind the scenes you may have a bunch of parents struggling to make ends meet in order to fund this. Many families do not want to admit they cannot afford things.
So a school trip is fine but it needs to be inclusive, both in terms of costs and activities. If you are comfortable that those aims are met then fine.

Otherwise, it is wrong. I know at least 2 or 3 families in my school who were genuinely worried about how to afford the cost but did not feel they could refuse or say anything.
I am the only one who said no and nobody reached out to me to find out of the reason for purely financial (obviously i would have refused any help).

Maybe my school was just very good at managing this but they knew every family and had a good idea of whom needed support. Everyone family could talk to the office in confidence and honestly I’m not aware of anyone who had an issue. We worked tirelessly as the PtA to be able to raise the money for these things. Like I say, every school is different, but to not have these experiences because some children can’t afford it is really unfair. We did our absolute best to ensure every child was included. A good school manages these things but it is hard. If a child turned down the trip I know the office would have been checking in with them to find out why and if they bc like offer any support so the child could go

Well, it’s a fine line. I’m hoping that if we say no to some activities and talk about it with the children as to why - don’t know, something along the lines of, we sometimes have to choose, we can’t do everything that the other people are doing, we’ll just be left with no money! And no time to enjoy! I would even say to them - look, there is a thing called fear of missing out, companies in this way push their products or services onto us - because we are afraid that we’ll be less than our peers. But in reality we do miss out on some things, it’s part of life - it’s a great thing to learn to be happy with what you have. I’d say something like that to the children, and hope that such discussions will help them not to be affected by FOMO that much.

We are. That’s my point - there’s no real need for us to be. It’s educationally poor, affects opportunity based on money and is an act of cultural vandalism to defund arts education.

I think schools should be offering some cheaper alternatives. With COL I could see that it is going to be a problem when parents have to pay for trips. I only went on days out when I was at school. I doubt I would have wanted to go on a trip lasting a week.

Yes, agree with this. Our school has a very active PTA, and a lot of the money raised goes towards subsidising school trips (for all families) and there is also money available to support low income families who otherwise couldn't afford the residentials.

But some things like Forest School don't need to be expensive anyway. Our school either does it on the school site or in a local park 5 minutes walk away, and parents volunteer to support the teacher. Unless the school literally has no green space and is not within a 15 minute walk of any parks, it seems a bit indulgent to do a Forest School somewhere that involves extra cost to get to.

Should disabled children miss out so tax payers pay less?

Edited to say I think you have misread OPs post.

Sorry if I've missed more on this but ice-skating??!

I'd be having a chat with the school tbh, to see whether there was another potential option for regular lessons (for PRIMARY children!) that involved less faff, fewer sharp blades etc and actually taught them something useful they might use again. I mean, I don't want to knock ice-skating but it's not what you'd call a life skill nor is it universally fun!

Our primary school had free music lessons on any chosen instrument but I believe that came out of the PTA funds so that may be why your friend’s school gets them free.

Out PTA also covered minibus hire for school trips.

can you just not pay for the costumes for school play? That’s ridiculous