Is it normal for primary schools to expect so many payments?

[ThisRealFawn]

I have twins in Yr 5 in Primary School and recently (in the past 2 years) there are just so many things to pay for. I appreciate that the school are taking the children out to do things but it’s all at a cost to the parents that we just cannot afford easily in these pricy times. This is a state school. Not private btw.

last term we paid for:

music lessons x2 = £130
forest school x2 = £40 (plus £100 ish worth of weather appropriate clothing)
residential x2 = £300 (plus all the stuff they needed)
costumes for school play = £40 ish

so like £700 ish

this upcoming term already we have paid

music lessons x2 = £130
weekly ice skating x2 = £130
Sherwood forest trip x2 = £60

so another £300+ already before the term has even started

Is this normal? How are people affording this. Like I said - I’m glad for the children they get to do this stuff but I don’t like the assumption that everybody will just happily keep paying for whatever the school decide to arrange.

if you’re entitled to school meals I think you get it all paid for but we don’t qualify even though we aren’t high earners.

we haven’t done anything really over the Easter hols because I literally have had £100 left to last me 2 weeks. Could have done with that £300 I’ve just had to pay really 😂

Is this normal now for primary schools or is our school unusual for this?

This is correct. So what happens at the school where I work is that if parents don't pay the voluntary contribution the trip is cancelled. Sadly, school budgets do not extend to paying for these events when parents choose not to pay, although we are able to offer some financial help to parents who are in receipt of certain benefits. We are fortunate that we are in a London borough, so many trips to museums etc don't cost anything as public transport is free.
With regards to music lessons, when my dcs were at primary, we paid £65 a term for a half hour 1:1 lesson per week. My dcs are now in their 30's, so I reckon you are getting a bargain.

We do have one but nobody mentions anything about it so I can only assume they are paying it too

It shouldn’t be either/or. Music is important, and can be very beneficial for SEN children too. Why do we now assume we can’t have nice things?

I voted YABU because you have actively and signed up for music and ice skating lessons as extra curricular activities; so you are, in effect, blaming the school for your own choices.
You should stop them if you don’t wish to pay for them. It’s a simple fix.
I have 4 kids (including a set of twins) and none of my kids had music or ice skating lessons as I couldn’t afford them.
Peer pressure is no reason to do anything in life. Do what is right for you.

Yes indeed. Also it might be the case that the music lessons at the other school are supplied by (say) a charity that aims to extend participation in music, and therefore the money could not be spent elsewhere.

But yes, learning to play and enjoy music is a great gift and surely one that would benefit all children.

Btw @ThisRealFawn you mention the music lessons being a large group of 15 children – some seem to have taken this to mean the lessons that you pay £65 a term per child for – I thought you meant the free ones at the other school. If it's the ones your DC access then I agree that's a lot. OTOH if that's £65 a term for a 1-1 lesson (or even a 1-2 lesson) then that's about a fiver a week which is good value.

If Forest School is off-site, then the school will have been given a kit list by the service provider. It’s not their choice, it’ll be a health and safety requirement . Who do you think should pay for the kit? Are you aware that schools are massively underfunded? Basically schools have a choice - do activities and charge parents, or don’t do activities at all.

I was very involved in the PTA when my kids were at primary school, so I learned quite a lot about school finance. There’s no money basically. As a PTA we arranged load of things and raised large amounts of money, which funded some lovely activities for the kids. Is your PTA very active OP? And if not, could you get involved ?

Different schools will offer different things, and charge in different ways. The ones that appear to offer everything free probably have an active PTA, or a very successful academy trust. Or maybe a lot of kids getting Pupil Premium . Or perhaps their own facilities (eg my kids primary school has a large field, pond etc, and they do their own Forest School).

The only we had to pay for was a residential P7 and a few other leavers things like hoodies

all those other things were provided by school or the PTA including music lessons and trips

Might be useful to raise this in the WhatsApp group. I had lots of various lists so far. In practice, it turns out, for example, that you don’t need a pair of white indoor shoes and a pair of white outdoor shoes, one pair of any colour works just fine. (Even though the list says - two white pairs). Of course, you need to be a bit brave potentially as you’re exposing a vulnerability (that you can’t easily part with hundreds). I guarantee (from my experience from the South East) that a lot of people share the same concerns!

That sounds insane. it's only 2 years since dd was in Y5 and there was nothing like that. Probably 2-3 trips the whole year, about £20 each. The odd dress up day for £1. They would help with costumes for performances or it was generic things like 'brown t shirt' which could usually be bought secondhand or borrowed. None of these expensive activities that everyone seems to be doing at yours. I guess if the take up is high, the school won't realise it's not welcome? I would certainly like to know the views of other parents and the school. I cann't believe 100% are happy with this set up!

The class music lessons are free in that PP's post. Even though they're costing the school significantly more than that.

Are your children musically gifted OP? If not I would be cutting out the music lessons and telling the school that you cannot afford X, Y and Z.

When I was a child there were very few such activities. The occasional trip to a classical concert in the city where we had a famous orchestra. For the coronation (1953) we were taken to the local cinema to watch the Conquest of Everest. However these were rare treats. Our headmaster was very forward looking and arranged a trip to Paris for those of us who took French. When he learned there was no money for me to go the school offered me a bursury but my father refused it. He regarded it as charity and it was against his pride to accept. I had to tough it up when all my friends returned and talked about their experiences. Its fair to say I never forgave him and ofter threw it back in his face in later life.

Who pays for those children whose parents do not pay? Is it other parents' payments subsidising it or does it come from elsewhere?

Of course it is. You either pay for your child to do it or not. Lots of children stay behind in school when their parents can’t afford for them to do activities or don’t want them to.

Officially schools are not allowed to raise costs for other parents to supplement those who can't or won't pay. The cost for those on lowest incomes will come out of the pupil premium budget, and generally most other parents do their best to pay, or decline the trip. There is always the message 'this trip may be cancelled if not enough parents pay', but I have never known that happen in practice

Children cost a lot of money. Activities cost a lot. Who do you think should pay for your children's extra curricular activities? The tax payer? Nobody pays for my children's music lessons.

You sound somewhat entitled, OP. Stop moaning. Maybe move them to a school that offers a less well rounded experience - no music, Forest school or ice skating - so you save money and they don't feel like they're missing out. Alternatively, make cut backs elsewhere in your life so you can afford to offer your children these opportunities that mean so much to you.

You are choosing. It's still a choice you are actively making. Stop complaining about your own choices. Plenty of children I know opted out of residentials because it was too expensive.

I don't think it will be a class music lesson as part of the ordinary school curriculum. I've never heard of there being a charge for these in a state or private school. If it's group instrumental lessons then that's quite reasonable.

Yup, in Ireland and we’re the same- dancing, swimming, music, football. Generally eight weeks of them during class time. I think certain times there’s a bigger collection of things but our school are good for giving people a bit of time

I am not saying that somebody else should pay for it. I’m simply asking if it’s normal for schools to offer this many things that you then feel obligated to participate in. I feel like it’s not very typical. I think moving them to a different school at 10 years old is a bit of an overreaction

The only thing I understand you paying for is the residential trip and any other day trips. The other things will be optional. So that’s your choice to pay.

It’s not 1-1 but not full class either. There are around 10 - 15 kids for each lesson

I’m not complaining - I’m asking if this is normal? The point is, yes it’s optional but apart from the music lessons I feel it puts pressure on parents when the school say they’re doing it with the expectation that everyone comes and then demands payment

As far as I know the only person not going is a girl that has cp and can’t walk. Everyone else seems to be going

I think it's a lot tbh. I hardly have to pay for anything at DC school. They do beach school not forest, which is free. Yes they need wellies and waterproofs but mine has them anyway. Some kids didn't have them and I guess just got wet. It's an afternoon session so they go straight home afterwards anyway. The only trip I've been asked to pay for in the last year was the annual panto trip, the others have been free. The school wouldn't do something like ice-skating unless they were funding it. Music hasn't been a thing yet but my DC is only year 3.

I would hope she would be going and not left out due to her disability, wheelchairs can be adapted to go on ice.