To think it's unfair to sell your home to fund care when older while others pay nothing.

[SonnyHoney]

I provide healthcare services to older people, which means I regularly visit care homes. It’s something I find quite upsetting at times. I see individuals who have worked hard all their lives, paid off their mortgages, and are now facing care home fees of around £2,000 a week.

Meanwhile, others are living in the same care homes with their costs largely covered, aside from a contribution from their pension.

I say this as someone from a working-class background and daughter of an immigrant (El salvador) who has had to work incredibly hard to get to where I am financially. I’m also very aware that one day my own parents may have to sell their home to fund their care.
My mum, for example, has run a cleaning business for years, she’s up early every morning and has worked long, physically demanding hours. She hopes to pass something on, but realistically, I feel it will likely be used to cover care costs .

Before anyone says “Why don’t you just care for her yourself and keep the house?” And of course, if I’m in a position to do that, I will. But the reality is that with older age, there can come a point where needs become too complex, and care at home is no longer possible.

Obviously, those who don't have houses to sell need care and have to go to a care home, but my point is it just feels unfair, really.

Exactly, so many single people, divorced people and low earners etc have worked their whole life but not been in a position to buy a property or save over 23k.

Its tricky though because lots of people work hard all their lives on a low income and don't own their own home or have any savings, they need care too. What about the fair deal scheme, is that a thing in the UK?

Absolute wasters? Has it occurred to you that many people working minimum wage jobs, such as carers, wouldn't be able to afford to buy their own home/have savings?

Also, I've worked in a variety of care settings and never come across a situation where the home (admin lady?!) can decide how people spend their own money. Nor have I met any residents I've ever cared for who have been vocal about "work being for idiots".

And mine. Ideally I would want my wishes made clear in the Advance directive / Living will + advance health care planning.
I honestly can’t think of anything worse than ending up in a care home. No thanks!

There is no 7 year rule. The LA can go back as far as they want to. If care needs were reasonably foreseeable when the assets were disposed of, then it can be considered deprivation of capital.

@SonnyHoney What do you propose as a solution?

Well I'm sure plenty of people just want a free house off their elderly parents that they didn't do anything to earn, and then the state to fund their parent's care but that is an absolutely fucked up and selfish thing to think.

The thing which annoys me the most is that if self-funding you also pay extra to top up the local authority funded residents.

If Home costs say £1800 per person, self funders are paying £2k because the local authority are paying £1600. Local authority should pay the full cost. The top up should be from all Council Tax payers not just the unfortunate people who are self funding.

It is similar where people are self funding nursery places because Govt rates are too low, they pay a higher rate.

Rant over

My gran went into a care home. She spent most of her life caring for my disabled grandad, and lived in council accommodation for all of it.
She was not an "absolute waster". She was an amazing woman who doted on my grandad and cared for him up until he died. Then she had just 5 years before vascular dementia showed up.

I'll respond by saying that leaving money to your heirs is the worst possible reason for assisted dying, and very open to abuse.

Assisted dying because you are physically incapable of doing things that would bring you pleasure, with no prospect of recovery and a future of pain and increasing dependency, is another matter.

I enjoy my life too - and have helped our daughter with house deposit, cars, etc. etc. but I prefer to have enough money left to ensure I have agency and autonomy in my old age to choose a decent care home.

For you things could change - don't be so sure you'll have any choice about where you end up - these huge welfare bills are becoming unsustainable. You sound rather foolish - if everyone was like you, what do you think would happen?

Savings run out pretty quickly when you pay care home fees and then you end up in the same boat as the none self-funders with not a lot of choice where you end up or what type of care you will get.

How can a care home justify £2000 costs per week ? For each resident.
Staff are minimum wage.

No. This is different. Different to slagging off single parents getting cheaper entry fees to zoos etc. I did NOT slag them off. But I don't want to pay £££s for my care when someone else gets it for fuck all. I've fucking scrimped to pay my mortgage and I want my kids to get it!!!! Not the state!!!!!!

The reason that everyone doesn’t do this anymore isn’t because they can’t be arsed or don’t care. It’s because most children of people of that age are having to work full time. And the pension age has now gone up to 67 for those children.

And plenty of people still do look after their parents if they can.

The house can't be sold from under the remaining spouse in any circumstances

• Occupied Property: The house is ignored if it remains the home of a spouse, civil partner, or estranged partner.
• Family Occupants: It is disregarded if occupied by a relative (or partner's relative) aged 60+ or incapacitated.

Hopefully you/your parent challenged this ridiculous rule and or moved them out of there?

Both my grandmothers ended up in the same nursing home (a few years apart). One paid through sale of her home, the other didn't pay as she had no money (had lived in council flat, minimal savings). My feelings on it are mixed. Both were hardworking people, and I don't begrudge my gran who received free care. The other had a more fortunate life but it still felt unfair that's how her hard earned money was spent. But then she had no need for that money any more.

However both didn't enter the home until their very late 80s and died around 2 years later. I think that's quite typical. But I had an aunt who was in care home for 15 years (early onset Alzheimer's) and my MIL is only one fall from having to go into care home - and she's only late 70s. Her care will be very expensive - and her expensive home will pay for it.

Even residents that don’t need help to get out of bed can be paying that just be in what could be warden monitored in some cases.

Be cheaper to cruise your death years away

But wouldn’t that just preserving the savings / property, to pass on as inheritance? Those receiving it haven’t scrimped and saved for it.

I appreciate it’s unattractive, and I don’t know the ins and outs, but the person in care doesn’t need the house and with an aging population, in a practical sense, who will actually pay for all the care? In reality does it then just mean the tax payer is effectively funding people’s inheritance?

Ah, thank you for correcting me on that one, I hadn't realised that.

A friend's nan had a fall at home and had to go into care. She was fully mentally well no dementia and she hadn't broken anything or had any problemsthat neededbed rest. She went temporarily into a council run home. She was deemed by the nurse on admittance
mentally impaired and she was drugged up and left on her bed. The place stank of pee and the only staff to be seen when I went there were 2 ladies by the door as you walked in.
The family managed to find a better care home which they paid for by funding by themselves before managing to sell her house and use that.
Within a week of being in the new private care home she came off the medication and there was no sign of the dementia that the council home said she had. She lived for another 6 years in the private care home and never developed dementia or had any other mental health problems .

Money makes a massive difference to the treatment and surroundings of care .

I’m a nurse and the vast majority of care home residents I know of are wealthy middle class. The working class generally don’t live into ripe old age and need much in the way of care.

Spending your last miserable weeks/months/years in a care home is no life for anyone. My aim is to use Dignitas if it comes to it (expect I’ll be dead long before). But it’s not right that so much tax is being spent on the elderly wasting away.

Sorry forgot to quote you! Thank you for pointing out my error in thinking

£11.57 an hour to keep someone warm, safe, fed, clean, medication sorted, wounds dressed, activities when appropriate doesn’t sound high to me.