To think it's unfair to sell your home to fund care when older while others pay nothing.

[SonnyHoney]

I provide healthcare services to older people, which means I regularly visit care homes. It’s something I find quite upsetting at times. I see individuals who have worked hard all their lives, paid off their mortgages, and are now facing care home fees of around £2,000 a week.

Meanwhile, others are living in the same care homes with their costs largely covered, aside from a contribution from their pension.

I say this as someone from a working-class background and daughter of an immigrant (El salvador) who has had to work incredibly hard to get to where I am financially. I’m also very aware that one day my own parents may have to sell their home to fund their care.
My mum, for example, has run a cleaning business for years, she’s up early every morning and has worked long, physically demanding hours. She hopes to pass something on, but realistically, I feel it will likely be used to cover care costs .

Before anyone says “Why don’t you just care for her yourself and keep the house?” And of course, if I’m in a position to do that, I will. But the reality is that with older age, there can come a point where needs become too complex, and care at home is no longer possible.

Obviously, those who don't have houses to sell need care and have to go to a care home, but my point is it just feels unfair, really.

See my other post. I would hugely increase the scope of inheritance tax.

My dad had to sell his house for care fees.

Fortunately he didn't realise as it would have broken his heart to know that it wouldn't be left to his kids.

But it was worth not having an inheritance to know that he had choices & was very well cared for in his last years.

That he was subbing others though-that hurts & really is unacceptable.

My mother-in-law was a neglectful parent. Her six children had nothing. One set of clothes each and hand me down uniform. My husband didn’t even have a bed until one was donated to him. No Christmas or birthday presents. She never worked, just stayed in bed watching TV and smoking. She never worked. She spend her children’s uniform grants on Sky TV.

She is now in her late 70’s and living in assisted living for free. She won’t leave my husband a bean. That was always her full intention.

My parents on the other hand worked extremely hard. My dad did so much overtime and my mum worked nights in a care home so she could be with us children in the day and do the pick-ups. I’m not sure when she slept. They bought a house and did it up lovely. They created a lovely home for us, and told us that one day this was all for us. This was why they worked, so hopefully one day they could pass that on and make our lives easier. Now they are in their 70s and worrying that their lifetime of effort could come to nothing they’re trying to find ways of safeguarding as much of that inheritance accrued as possible. I feel so sorry for them. They should’ve just enjoyed it. They should’ve worked less.

I do not see my parents and my mother-in-law‘s contribution as anywhere close to equal in this life. And I don’t think mother-in-law is deserving of free care or subbed care whilst my parents would have to pay and do the subbing. I would quite happily see her neglected now.

Yes-we don't tell richer people they need to use private schools and private medicine, do we?
If people WANT to pay for private care etc, that is their choice. But we don't tell people that if they want more kids they'll have to pay for schooling/healthcare etc. We don't make people pay for (hardly) anything else, so why this?
And I also think we should pay carers better, so that as many people as possible can be cared for in their own homes, as much as is practically possible.

What rubbish you’re spouting. ‘Unearned’ asset? The majority of people have worked bloody hard to buy that asset, which often takes years to actually pay off until it’s properly theirs. Many prioritise holidays, material stuff, big cars and then rent. Others forgo holidays and material stuff to save for a deposit to provide a roof for their kids. Some peoples priorities are so skewed they don’t put having a home at the top of their list, yet their fecklessness then mean they get free care when they get too old to cope, while other people who have ensured the security of their family end up having to sell their home to fund £1000 per week home care costs, for the privilege of being looked after by minimum wage, uneducated people in often inadequate surroundings.

I am about to hopefully get £475,000 from the sale of my dad's house, who lived there with home care until he went into an NHS hospital and then a hospice days before his death.

My aunt is currently in a care home with dementia - her house was sold and unless something changes drastically, it is likely that 100% of the profits from her house will be used on her care.

Is it totally unfair that my cousins will most likely get nothing from their parents' house sale, while I will get the lot from mine? Yes totally, but realistically unless everyone wants to pay enough tax in their younger years that there is enough money for free care homes for everyone for as long as they need them, what are the other options?

The problem is they are also subsidising the care costs of those with no money. That is not fair or reasonable.

I do agree, they should have better care. But homes would have to be better staffed. And no care home owner will willingly give up any profit to better the level of care. And the local authorities won't pay more for care meaning privately funded people are subsidising the local authority's bill.

The whole care system needs an overhaul. But it doesn't happen because the majority don't care about elderly people.

The other options for starters are to investigate how care home owners are all loaded, where exactly are the fees going as the staff get paid peanuts . Then for councils to budget effectively and to stop wasting money on stupid irrelevant gimmicks.

They need to allocate more for health and social care. It isn't rocket science.

I think she meant the kids who inherit hadn't earned the asset. Which is true. My parents have worked bloody hard for their assets. They are theirs to enjoy, not mine. I don't look at their hard-earned as mine, by default. It always baffles me that there are some who rely on inheritance as some sort of a 'right'. Inherited money is not earned by the inheritor. All they've done to get it is be born.

It's mad - but not quite for the reasons you think. My father is currently costing £1800 a week in a nursing home - the entire cost is picked up by the unfortunate council he was living in when he got ill (he has been in care for years, so completely run out of money). I am totally unfussed about inheritance, but he has no idea who he is (let alone me), is in constant pain and lives a life of constant misery. My child's primary, meanwhile, is on its knees with 30 kids to her class, which includes two SEN kids and only one TA. Care costs - whether private or state funded - are breaking this country.

Yes I would
Just as I would be happy to pay more for a decent nhs and educational system
For everyone
Equally

But I suppose the arguement is that those who have earned the asset should have the right to choose what happens to it. If they want to pass it onto their children, that should be their right?

Covid helped with that. There were 2 government grants which varied depending on the size of the care home. For example, a 24 bed home got around 20k in the first grant, 18k in the second. Many providers (owners) kept the money and put on the forms that "x amount of rooms are kept free in case staff need to isolate". The owners home I managed at the time kept at least 10k and I refused to sign the forms. I hope this gets investigated properly but that would take time/resources/money so I doubt it.

She's isn't spouting rubbish. She's pointing out that much of the value in a person's home will come from equity due to house price increases. My in laws bought their first home in 1965 for £3000. That home was recently sold for £450k. Even accounting for mortgage interest payments, that's a huge profit that they did nothing to earn. Paying the mortgage doesn't count, that's what you pay for the roof over your head. And renters pay too. In my area, significantly more than the mortgage on an equivalent property.

Very few people need care though, so a complete misuse of tax payers money

Unlike the NHS and education.

Indeed the home we live in was 5k!!! When purchased a fortune back then no doubt but nothing of real value has been done to it to now make it worth over 700k.

Also a lot In the case of my in laws their parents all helped them with their house purchases (60k first house out right, then 120k second house small mortgage, now worth 850k) but of my friends very few have been helped despite their parents crowing of how easy it was. Yes because their parents helped but they seem to think they fully earned it while their children now work longer hours for what is really less money house wise.

Ideally, everyone should work to provide for their old age, but that isn't always possible. Some people can barely afford to eat, how are they expected to put anything by?

But yes, if you have assets that can be used to provide for your old age they should be.

The way things are going there won't be anything close to decent care provided by the state in years to come so people need to start taking future planning seriously and hope to god they've got enough put by.

If we follow the logic to the end: everyone should get free elderly care because it's not fair on the people with money.

They keep their money, the state pays and the state is worse off. Richer people don't pay their way.

Alternatively, the poor people don't get to stay in the nice care home so they have either a rubbish care home or end up stuck in the streets.

Rich people pay their way but don't have mix with the riffraff.
Old people die in the gutter.

Is that the Society you want?

We should be able to Afford is someone wants To, to look after the elderly like we used to.

We do work to provide for our old age by paying taxes for health and social care.

Would you agree to selling a car to pay for hospital care? Course not. The system is batshit. Some people get care homes free others pay.

Ineffective councils and their budgets are the problem.

It's a problem elephant in the room. Everyone knows - or should know - that there is unfairness and inequalities in the provision of care for those who can't look after themselves/haven't got relations who can help/can't afford care etc.

But it needs money to move on. Basically more tax.

And paying more tax - however worthy - is not a vote winner.

But then they have to pay for a service others get free. I think that’s the kicker.

Paying for your care is fine: it's the ridiculous amount the 'care' homes are charging... £2000 a WEEK!!! For what? Mostly minimum wage staff, many who couldn't give a flying f*ck about the residents, owner of care home calls round once a week in his Ferrari to make sure his money is safe... they try to milk the residents as fast as they can before they die, so they can have all the money from their houses and assets as quickly as possible. That's what is immoral - those 'businesses' making huge amounts of money as quickly as possible. There should be a fair payments policy... a maximum charge, fined and banned if charging more.

They seem to be all private now, thanks to Thatcher, so companies buy and sell these homes and make a profit from the elderly. We are in nw, so Mum was paying 1500 per week for poor care when we could no longer cope. She needed two people for care, she got the same as those paying nothing. The local authorities won’t pay enough, so Mum subsidies the non payers, which in my book should not be lawful. Mum and Dad had been very careful and I wish they had spent their cash on holidays and a better life-style. Don’t know what the answer Is. I take your point that it is unfair, but should the tax payer ie working person pay, so that we can keep the money from Mum’s house, hard to justify. In our case, we looked after Mum for years, so she, only paid for six months and has just died at a very advanced age, suffering both physical and mental. The conservatives proposed a limit on care costs, but labour cancelled this as unaffordable. So we are stuck with what we have
Given what I have learned, I will go to Switzerland