To Think That DD School Are Covering Up Teacher’s Unprofessional Behavior

[MrsJLL]

DD is age 10. She bright and sporty. Very sociable, happy at school and doing really well.

I was recently at the school gates waiting to collect her. The mums tend to stand around chatting in little groups.

I was stood close by to many other mums but was just checking something on my phone so was alone but only about 1 to 2 meters away from everyone else.

A teacher approached me and unbelievably announced within earshot of the many of other mums that she has diagnosed my daughter with ADHD because apparently she acts like the “other ADHD” kids that this teacher knows

I was really shocked and upset as we have never had any SEND contact and this teacher is just a class teacher. Other mums definitely heard what the teacher said and also saw me being upset. The teacher then walked off after I got upset and refused to elaborate.

I subsequently made a complaint to the Headmistress about the teachers conduct and the fact she had discussed sensitive medical information in a public place, thereby breaching data protection /GDPR.

The response came back from the head that the teacher was not acting on behalf of the school when she said those things to but was speaking in her own capacity and on her own behalf.

Therefore, whilst it was regrettable, she hasn’t done anything wrong and neither has she breached any data protection laws because the information she gave me about her opinion of my daughter’s mental health was not the “official view of the school” so it doesn’t matter that it was overheard by various people.

The Head then reiterated how confident they are in this teacher’s professionalism.

That is apparently the end of the matter as far as the Head is concerned.

it has really upset me and I feel like the school are covering up for this teacher.

AIBU?

what should I do next?

Ive not read the whole thread but just read it to my DH who is a primary Headteacher.
He said the teacher , most definitely but also the school are not following the teaching standards expected which are about expectations and professionalism, and also is bringing in to disrepute the integrity of the school.
As a HT he said he would have called you in for a private meeting, most definitely WOULD have apologised for the behaviour of the staff member and although you may not actually find out what their 'consequence' was, the teacher would most definitely have a consequence (teaching standards / expectations).
It is the Headteachers role to ensure their staff DO act as part of the school. If that is their stance then you could honestly question their ability in their role as a HT.
Definitely not good enough and I would let the school know this and maybe speak with the Governors regarding GDPR.

On a separate but similar topic we recently went to a college parents night for our fs. Obviously he has a 'story' but we were unable to discuss any of it because it was so open. 2 lecturers in a room, with parents (some students) at seats in the middle of the room. We literally heard the whole conversation about one student's difficulties at parts of the course, how she was waiting to see a consultant and how her adhd meds might need adjusting, along with other stuff about her secondary education (very little ie 2 x½ days). It was awful. I did email the course leader and say ut was not acceptable.and we.couldnt discuss our fs in detail as it would mean others learnt of his situation.

Oooohhh I am sorry but I would be taking this ALL the way.

The teacher’s behaviour was horrifyingly unprofessional and the Head’s response is utter nonsense given that it was during the working day, on the school site and related to her job/your child.

Off to the Board of Governors with you and the very best of luck!

The Head is worse than the teacher. Of course the head doesn't want you to make an official complaint because that would look bad on her and the school. Make the complaint official.

That is horrendous and I am shocked the school are doing nothing ! Possibly , they are behind the scenes ?

As a teacher myself I would NEVER go to a parent with my own opinion of a child’s needs . I have been in a situation before where I have suspected additional needs - to me , it was so clear that this child was autistic . I’m the parent of an autistic child myself and this child exhibited very similar behaviours that I personally couldn’t put down to anything else, this child was always getting into trouble . I was on long term supply and it really pained me to see them being , in my opinion , reprimanded for things that were beyond their control and not supported. I went to the head, who asked me to voice my concerns to the senco but he explained to me that this had been mentioned to parents before but they completely shut it down. Therefore , I just put things in place to support the child.

I would never approach a parent like that , especially in view of others when it’s so sensitive and to say it’s “ because she’s like another child with ADHD” it’s disgusting and goes against all the teachers standards we are expected to uphold every day . I’m sorry you were treated in this way x

Why is it embarrassing to have Adhd and why would it matter if your daughter is thriving and why would it matter if some parents heard its nothing to be ashamed of

My daughter is in reception and teaching assistant is constantly telling parents if their child has misbehaved, if one of them has headlice etc. This is in front of other parents not spoken to privately.

I think that teachers should be taking parents into a private part of the classroom or giving a phone call or letter not in front of other parents who can overhead the conversation!

Children have a right to privacy .

Teachers have certain processes and avenues they have to follow if they have concerns about a child.

Parents should never be blindsided like that in the playground .

It’s irrelevant is OP sees ADHD as a superpower and the next best thing since sliced bread , or the most embarrassing thing ever. It doesn’t change the fact that the teacher’s actions were wrong .

its not a question of "falling out" This was a professional person behaving innappropriately and then the Head declining to take any action on the basis that "she was not speaking as an employee of the school"

then do something about it!

Lots of things are nothing to be ashamed of but that you wouldn't want other people to know. Would you be happy if in a GP's waiting room, the receptionist or doctor spoke very loudly about some embarassing symptoms you were experiencing, so all the other patients could overhear?

The conversation between OP and the teacher could be overheard by other parents and pupils and it is highly likely that some of them may share the information.

It was a conversastion that should have been held in private by someone qualified to diagnose ADHD.

I can't believe how unprofessional and inappropriate the teacher was.

You really do need to escalate this to the governors as an official complaint. The Headteacher's response is absolute nonsense and really glib. I suggest they look at the Teacher Standards and their own code of conduct with regard to professionalism!
Keep your complaint as depersonalised as possible: focus on how inappropriate the teacher's approach was and cite the SEND policy which will set out the steps the school will take if a child is showing signs of additional needs. This has not been followed. It's ludicrous to say that it's the teacher's personal opinion. This took place during working time and whilst she was in her working role.
Raise your concerns that you feel the HT hasn't taken your initial complaint seriously and is minimising the unprofessional behaviour of a member of staff and the distress this caused when done so publicly. It helps to itemise your concerns as it is possible that governors will offer mediation to discuss one by one and they can uphold some if not all.
I was a Headteacher for many years and am a chair of governors. They should take this matter seriously!

But she is in a professional role at the school !!!! So she should be following protocol as a professional!
She doesn't have any qualifications to say your daughter has ADHD she maybe has an opinion because she recognises traits of ADHD in children that's do have professional diagnosis!
What she did was unprofessional and rude !!
Headteacher is definitely covering and in this case u write a letter to the governors and get this sorted I had to do this not send related but something different when the head wasn't taking what I said seriously and in the end the teacher was actually sacked !

I am incredibly petty but I would ask staff if they were speaking as a member of staff or in their personal capacity at the start of every conversation.

“ The popular mums”? How would a teacher even know who they are? I have worked in education for a long time, and whilst I know of a few parents who are friends, I have no clue which ones are popular or not. I’m in the playground at home time most days. I see some parents chatting to each other but I don’t know even if they chat to the same people every day.
OP, of course the teacher shouldn’t have been discussing personal info in earshot of other people. You don’t say ( unless I missed it) whether it was DD’s class teacher or a different teacher who spoke to you. I would want an appointment with the SENDCO to discuss whether school thinks an assessment is desirable.
Teachers shouldn’t diagnose( they aren’t trained to do so) but if this teacher suspected an issue, it should be referred properly to the SENDCO.
Im surprised at the head’s attitude, maybe document your concerns by email, copying in the Chair of Governors, so that there is a paper trail should something like this happen again.

Thank you for all the responses

to clarify because the same questions have been asked a few times.

• No, we have no personal relationship with this teacher inside or outside of school. I have only said a brief hello to her a couple of times. Literally “hello” in passing and one prior brief chat where she came across, sorry for my French like a sly bitch, to put it mildly. just seems like an unpleasant woman to be honest from that prior chat, which is why I think this incident was designed to upset and embarrass me and my DD. It would be in keeping.

• Hence why “speaking in a personal capacity” just sounds like BS to me. We have no personal relationship and this occurred on school grounds with her speaking to me about what she had observed in the classroom. That cannot be “personal capacity” surely?

• the teacher is a full time employee of the school.

• I have already complained in writing to the head, stating breach of school policy, data protection and teaching standards. It is this written complaint which has been dismissed other than to say “sorry for any distressed caused” or words to that effect

• the next stage in the schools complaint process is a governors complaint. The head has effectively dared us to do that.

• we like the school a lot and want to keep on good terms with them so this is a shame this has happened. We don’t want a running. Style with the school or make DD a target but they have not addressed this properly so far!

• my DD and the teacher don’t get on because my DD doesn’t enjoy her subject (music). Then teacher is quite well known for being grumpy (other parents have mentioned it) but DD will mention to her if spoken to rudely and point out the teachers rudeness. Hence historic friction. But I don’t see that as any major issue and have never mentioned it to school, DD has just grumbled about it a few times but no big deal IMO.

Well it is, having spent many years in schools, don't underestimate the effect complaints have on the pupil.

It will be discussed in the staffroom, the parent will get a name for being a pain and before long little Johnny or Jane won't be getting selected for things in case mum makes a fuss.

You have to pick your battles - in this case the action can't be undone, the sensible course of action would be to arrange a proper meeting to discuss the teachers concern about ADHD, at which point mum can undrline the fact that she doesn't want DC's education discussed at the school gates, firm but fair going forwards.

I also worked in schools and I don’t think this is true. The parent usually gets the reputation not the kid. I remember the name Erin as an example. Every Erin I taught was lovely. Their mothers were not. It got to the point where I would see this name on a class list and wonder if my theory was going to be right (lovely kid, nightmare mum). I laughed at this and never took it out on an Erin. I’d like to think most teachers know it’s the parents not the kids.

I'm not saying the kid would get picked on, just that they may be strategically avoided to be picked for certain things - I saw that happen many times, not because the kid wasn't liked but because we could do without mum or dad's intervention.

And I remember two heads I worked under using very disparaging language to describe a couple of parents in staff briefing - what I am saying is the school has made a sort of apology and that's likely all you are going to get.

OPs daughter is the more important issue, does she have ADHD or not? I'm going to suggest probably not, if she doesn't much like Miss Gurneys music lessons she is likely lacking attention, distracted and maybe fidgeting.

Sorry but your post comes across as naive

Of course teachers are aware of the cliques and popular parents 😄

So you are saying its common for teachers to bad mouth parents and the pupils when they complain about inappropriate behaviour - that stinks!

Yep, in my experience most certainly, the parents though, not the pupils, they normally get some sympathy - although I left teaching a good few years ago I still work in schools and still hear it.

But then the same goes on in medical practices, supermarkets, solicitors offices - complaints cause agro, so complainants, even when justified beget a reaction behind the scenes! human nature.

Yes true it did make me careful around certain children but hopefully never to the detriment of their wellbeing.
i think most teachers also can tell which parents have a fair reason to complain, which might be having other issues causing a reaction that seems out of proportion, the type to complain about everything. Etc we can’t tell this from OP’s post but obviously if you make a habit of this you get a reputation. You do it once you lay a boundary for your child

So sorry you had this experience. Schools will very often cover up for awful behaviour of a teacher. They'll hide behind 'it didn't happen at school so it's not our problem'.

It's a cop out. That teacher represents the school in everything she does, and everywhere she goes.

We know of a teacher at a private school who bullied, belittled, and swore at children. She did it at an outside school club, and even though there were kids in that club from her school, they had a similar response. It did get a lot worse, but that's for another day.

Schools defend these awful teachers, probably because they don't want the bad publicity. The school we know about was recently taken over, and it seems they want to brush it under the carpet as well.

The head's response is nonsense, and as a chair of Governors myself with adhd and 2 Audhd kids myself, I'd recommend you escalate the complaint to the next stage of the complaints procedure.

The teacher only knows your child, their personality, how they behave in school etc and who you are as result of their professional role a teacher.

Just because it is their "personal" opinion, rather than the school's position, they have breached professional standards by sharing said personal opinion with you (an opinion they don't have "authority" to have - even sendcos can't diagnose ffs!!) , and it was perfectly reasonable for you (and others who overheard) to assume they WERE speaking in a professional capacity as it took place on school grounds. How do they propose to remedy this? Other parents/students may now erroneously believe your child has adhd -and even if your child DID, it wouldn't be for any school practitioner to share this with any other parents as its sensitive personal data as medical data!

The teacher has fallen well short of how they should conduct themselves, and the head is minimising this by saying it's not an issue because it doesnt "technically" breach data protection! The teacher HAS breached dp/confidentiality expectations by discussing personally something they believe they "know" (think they know!!) from their professional capacity!

Personal data Is anything that relates to an identifiable living individual, so your child's presentation/behaviour in schools could very well be considered as personal data in this sense, especially when you and/or your child are also visible to others when this opinion was being shared. Just because school haven't officially recorded any sen concerns (which is what i imagine the head was saying - i.e. there is no dp breach because they dont hold such data about your child) but this doesnt mean the teacher wasn't in breach of general rules about personal data and confidentiality!

On school grounds, or on school trips etc. teachers KNOW they are are representing their school ffs!

When you escalate the complaint, include what you want as a resolution?
E.g.

• Apology from teacher for sharing inappropriate personal opinion in inappropriate way/setting
• reassurance all staff have been reminded of official process for highlighting any sen concerns via the sendco
• reassurance that all staff have been reminded that they represent the school at all times when talking to parents about their child, especially on school grounds,
• reassurance that all staff have been reminded of code of conduct and when sharing of personal (rather than professional) opinions is appropriate or not
• reassurance that staff are trained/will be trained in how and where to have potentially sensitive conversations with parents.

You will not be not entitled to know whether the member of staff has been disciplined and what sanctions may have been applied of they have (ironically because of the staff member's privacy rights under data protection!) but you should be reassured that the matter HAS been addressed in line with policies and procedures relating to staff conduct.

If i received an escalated complaint like this as a chair of governors, id be furious at the head's response!

Is she employed by the school or a peripatetic music teacher who is effectively self employed? It does sound unprofessional to be so indiscreet.