AIBU to request a service charge is removed before service?

[Globules]

Went to a lovely restaurant yesterday. We began by ordering at the table using the app. We expected to pay before recieving our food.

The app automatically added a 12.5% service charge to the order. There was no option to remove it.

So I went to the bar and ordered. The server put the order through the app I'd just used, therefore the total was the same. I asked her to take off the service charge. She seemed surprised, but did so.

Inside I was thinking I haven't had any service yet, how can you charge me for it now?

The server poured the 2 drinks at the bar. I carried them to our table. Another server carried our plates of food 3m from the hatch to the table.

There was no other interaction with servers at all. The servers were pleasant enough, but 20 seconds of announcing food was all it amounted to.

The food was really tasty but nothing service wise to justify the £7 service charge they asked for upfront, before you'd even experienced the service!

Great idea, thanks I’ll let her know that she should get another job on top of the 3 she already does around her uni course which involves 30 contact teaching hours a week.

I think that the only circumstances in which it is acceptable not to tip a waiter/waitress are if they have been actively rude. Service may sometimes be not the best, not because of the server but because the restaurant is inadequately staffed (not the fault of the staff who are there).

But you're not getting "service" if you have to download an app, place your own order, go to the bar and pay, then bring your drinks back and the only "service" is being handed your food? What exactly are you paying for there?

That seems odd. Most places I eat don't add it automatically. Pubs, Indians, small local places like the Turkish Grill type. Loads of places don't add it.

I even went to a huge country house restaurant the other day and not only did they not add it, there was no way to add it on the card reader. I only had a £5 note, so left that tucked into the receipt folder, but I felt bad because the meal was over £90, though the food was not great, the service was fine.

Though I do agree with you that where you pay up front (apps, etc) then it has to be included at that point because it's added when you pay, and that's when you're paying. If they didn't do that, they'd get almost nothing as most people don't have cash and no ones going to go back to the bar, or app, to put through just a tip.

and find it bizarre that there are so many vitriolic responses to my opinion.

You didn't though. People are simply pointing out we have NMW and tips are a voluntary bonus. You tarted with removing service charge being a dick move. It isn't generally.
Your daughter shouldn't rely on tips. They are simply an unreliable bonus and should be absolutely voluntary.

If you choose to tip various people that is up to you. But it is not a dick move not to tip and not want to pay service charge let alone on pre paid orders.

It is not up to the customers to make up for that by tipping when they are already paying extortionate amount for food these days.

Your daughter has legal avenues open to her. But it is the employee that is the problem, it is not customers “being dicks” by not tipping in a country with minimum wage and good employment laws.

She could also get another job.

Totally agree with you and just goes to show it’s a piss take and nothing to do with service. Just back from Miami where they add City tax amongst others, so the menu prices don’t resemble the amount you end up paying.

When i worked in retail many years ago. No-one tipped me. Whats the difference?

This is a ridiculous argument. Lots of people work hard for minimum wage but don't get tips. You don't tip the cashier in a supermarket.

It is also usually tax evasion.

So? How is that the fault of the customer?

If you came on here with anger at zero hour contract and employers acting illegally then we’d all be on your side. But you’ve called the customers dicks, and you’re blaming the customers for your daughter not being paid. But we’ve already covered the cost of her wage by paying for food. Any illegal activity by her employer after that is nothing to do with the customer and you shouldn’t be expecting customers to pay extra to cover that. Tips are voluntary and it is not a dick move to remove a service charge.

And this is mumsnet btw, the demographic of users here is very much uni educated so most people here went to uni and had to work around it. That’s not all that shocking.

Bitchy because we don't agree?
Now that is funny.

This is just incorrect. Literally every restaurant in the UK adds 12.5% service charge? Maybe if you’re eating exclusively at big chains, but I eat at a lot of smaller and local restaurants and many of them don’t have a service charge added at all, or if they do only over X amount of people at a table. It certainly is not ‘every single restaurant’, what an odd claim.

Am more than happy to pay for good service on top of my bill, refuse to pay for substandard service. As soon as it becomes the norm, the level of service won't matter to the staff, as they know they will get a tip however badly they perform.

That's a very strange anecdote.

Estate agents have well established processes in place for this. Usually anyone introduced by the primary agent up to 6m prior will be payable to that agent, the new agent accepts this when they take on the property.

Then, if the new agent has done photos, brochure etc, but not got a % fee as no sale by them, then the terms cover this and you pay an amount to cover that work. It's in the contract. As you say, paying fairly for the work that has been done.

So, no need to "tip" them, just pay the fees the contract covers.

Did you just "can't you read" a post which was on before you answered? 😂

But why do you think I should be paying from my wages?

Or other customers who are on NMW and don't get tips, why should they be tipping your daughter when she is already getting paid to do the job?

And if she isn't getting paid, why should customers make up for the failings of her employer?

Even if I thought tipping was appropriate, I wouldn’t expect to tip the same when I’ve ordered and paid via an app as I would with a professional waiter who has spent time and effort discussing the menu, advising re choices etc. I think adding an automatic service charge, payable in advance, with the customer having to collect their own cutlery and condiments ( like the pub I was in the other day) is the action of a CF.

Wow rude. Sorry I dont spend my time reading through every single comment.

If someone has offered exceptional service, which is of course, subjective, I would want to acknowledge that. Otherwise, people are paid for the work that they do during the time they are contracted to do the job. As others have said, we don’t tip the cashier in a supermarket, or the assistant at the pharmacy, or any one of a number of jobs in which the public is being offered a service.

What about all the jobs in which people work in their own time, when they are not contracted to work? Were we to add those additional hours to the monthly salary, they would possibly be earning a minimum wage too. There are plenty of jobs and professions where people work over time, but don’t earn any more. It works both ways.

The issue with tipping in restaurants is who gets the money. There may well be some behind the scenes staff who don't serve, so don’t get he tips, but work as hard as the wait staff. If the service charge is shared with them, that’s reasonable, so you’d have to hope that it is and asking for it to be removed might result in those staff not getting a share. It isn’t just the people you see front of house who are serving you.

It doesn’t sit well with people though, to be asked to pay for something you haven’t yet received.

I don't like automatically added service charges, I used to work hospitality a lot from 15-22/23, for my sins at one point I worked at TGI Fridays, to earn my tip money I had to learn to make balloon animals, sing a birthday song across the whole restaurant multiple times a shift and wear a hat that showed my personality.... I also had to scrub down my own section at the end of a shift including a big toothbrush thing for the tile grout and make my customers desserts myself. Out of my tips I also had to tip out the bar making my section's drinks and the busser covering my tables. The tips were actually great and I found if I was generous tipping other staff my tables got relaid and resat quicker and my drinks were done first, leading to better service and better tips all round. A customer would leave the tip they thought I'd earned.

I begrudge tipping in nandos when I've ordered my food on an app, got my own cutlery and condiments and had a plate placed on the table with barely a smile. Where's the service I'm expected to pay for?

I personally do tip for good service but will not pay a large tip like that on an app. I tip un cash so I know the server gets it.

Just to point out you answered the question after my original comment. So maybe keep the attitude to yourself next time.

No they don’t.

OP is in the UK not the US

we don’t need the American tip culture or emotional blackmail.

plenty of people work min wage jobs & don’t get tips.