AIBU to request a service charge is removed before service?

[Globules]

Went to a lovely restaurant yesterday. We began by ordering at the table using the app. We expected to pay before recieving our food.

The app automatically added a 12.5% service charge to the order. There was no option to remove it.

So I went to the bar and ordered. The server put the order through the app I'd just used, therefore the total was the same. I asked her to take off the service charge. She seemed surprised, but did so.

Inside I was thinking I haven't had any service yet, how can you charge me for it now?

The server poured the 2 drinks at the bar. I carried them to our table. Another server carried our plates of food 3m from the hatch to the table.

There was no other interaction with servers at all. The servers were pleasant enough, but 20 seconds of announcing food was all it amounted to.

The food was really tasty but nothing service wise to justify the £7 service charge they asked for upfront, before you'd even experienced the service!

NMW has increased a lot in real terms. Ten years ago it was £7.20/hour & if it had only kept pace with inflation would be about £10/hour but it is now £12.71/hour which is a good 25% higher.

There is no need for routine tips in restaurants as the staff are now reasonably paid & don't need to rely on tips as they did historically.

They’re supposed to be split. The kitchen staff and porters are adding to your experience as well. If you agree with tipping, then you should agree that they all get a share of it.
And with the new legislation, tips all go to staff. They can’t get away with keep tips anymore. Not if they are reporting their finances to HMRC correctly.

No, not every single restaurant literally adds a service charge.

I made no comment about that. I simply pointed out to a PP who said she wouldn’t eat anywhere you had to order on an app that they were quite useful and her apparent snobbery about them was misplaced.

One good thing about Australia is that there is no tipping culture. I remain surprised by this.

It's always optional. @Globules

I agree. I always ask for the service charge to be removed because I want to leave cash for the waiter/waitress who served me. I sure a number of restaurants share out tips fairly, but I’m also sure many don't.

Sort of apropos something that really annoys me is the insidious rise of the tip percentage. For the first 50 years of my life 10% was deemed to be an entirely appropriate amount to tip in the UK, bearing in mind that this is not the USA and waiting staff are indeed on minimum wage. Somehow in the last five years this has crept up to 12.5% or 15% with the implication that 10% is stingy, but i haven’t really noticed the service being 2.5-5% better.

I generally just grit my teeth and pay up because I don’t want to spoil a pleasant experience, but it does grind my gears somewhat, especially when they add in another £1.00-2.00 for some charity they - or rather you - are supporting. Of course entirely optional and you can ask for it to be taken off, but then you look stingy and who wants that at the end of a meal that you’ve paid a fortune for.

Got a service charge for coffee yesterday. Paid it as don't really want to cause a scene, but won't be back. I very much wish they'd bring in that rule that prevents places adding 'discretionary' fees automatically, there was a lot of talk about it a couple of years ago but all seems to have gone quiet.

Is this in the UK because they shouldn't (rely on tips).

Like a lot of people who don't get the option of getting tip money, they're paid the NLW.

Service is almost universally always worse. Staff talk to each other as they serve you, they’re on phones, they just stare silently as you have to look at the machine to see the total.

Given increases in nmw then theres little defence to the argument servers should be paid more. I can understand why some people don't wish to pay it. I certainly want to see some service before I pay for it. Otherwise what incentive is there to get food out quickly?

I think talking about ‘minimum wage jobs’ is now a rather worn trope that used to mean five quid an hour but is now the exact same wage that lots of people are on. So if we’re tipping waiting staff that are on MWJ then we are also tipping a large swathe of workers in this country.

Ive found the best way to politely get out of it is by asking for it to be removed and saying 'I prefer to leave a cash tip'. Then you dont get the eye roll or confrontation.

Cash tip would be pathetically low if the service was perfunctory.

I understand the point you are making but you are paying for the food before you eat it so how is that any different from paying for the service before it has happened?
The food may be cold, badly cooked or not what you ordered but you have already paid for it. Adding service charge in at that point is just the same isn't it?

You can ask for refund if food is really bad. You can't well ask for refund of service charge if service is bad

It’s not a dick move at all. People here get at least minimum wage for their job - any service charge should be optional and given for exceptional service. There are many jobs that are minimum wage - a carer is not allowed to accept any kind of tip.

do they work hard for minimum wage? All of them? All the time?

Because OP's description of carrying something 3 metres doesn't exactly sound back breaking to me. Introducing an app means they don't even have to do the 'taking the order' and personal welcome and engagement part of the job.

Having actually done it, it's like any other job - sometimes you're rushed off your feet and do work hard. Other times it's quiet and you're just chatting with colleagues. Some servers are excellent - fast, efficient, accurate, and friendly. Others are useless, grumpy, and clearly don't want to be there. Not all of them deserve a tip, regardless of whether they 'rely' on it or not.

And even if they do work hard - do they work harder than the cleaners who don't get a tip? How about other minimum wage staff? Should a carer on minimum wage, who by almost any measure works harder and has more responsibility than a waiter on minimum wage, have to pay the waiter an extra 15% on her meal, when she doesn't get any tip? Or are you one of the 'if she can't afford to pay a tip she shouldn't go out for a meal?' types?

That's great you're going back. If you loved it then you should probably leave a tip next time? Even if it's less than 12.5. When they deserve it you should give it.

Not sure where you live but this total bollocks in the uk

I’ve no problem whatsoever paying a service charge and understand what you say about paying in advance. Last week I was charged £4 service on a drink at a bar- that’s a new one on me and as I was stood at the bar (so no service to the table or anything ) I really begrudged that one! (I didn’t notice just tapped my card- more fool me!)

£4 service on a single drink?! Where were you - the Savoy?

That's just shocking.

Incontinence, or just ‘pads’.

Babies wear nappies.

You are talking about adults, often unwell, probably with a deeply unpleasant disease and or disabilities. They may be young adults in their 20s.

Please do not infantilise these people, it strips them of their dignity. Soon to be 60? Something to think on!

Pizza Hut started these shenanigans so we stopped going and now our local is sitting vacant.

YANBU.

No 😬 not the savoy, cocktails though, (Two margaritas 🍸)