to think it’s time to ban dogs from shops and cafes?

[timetoban]

I’ve just read a BBC article about the increase in dog attacks in the UK.

Dogs seem to be everywhere now. Cafes, shops, even places where food is being served. I’m not anti-dog at all, but I don’t really want to be eating or shopping surrounded by them.

It’s not just about preference either. Some people are allergic, some are genuinely scared, and others just don’t want to deal with barking, smells or dogs getting under their feet. The BBC piece even mentioned people feeling like they have to avoid going out because dogs are everywhere now.

I also don’t really get how it’s hygienic in places serving food. I know people say “well-behaved dogs are fine” but not all dogs are well-behaved, and staff aren’t exactly going to challenge every owner.

Before anyone says it, yes obviously assistance dogs are different and should be allowed. That’s not what I mean.

I just feel like we’ve swung too far the other way where dog owners expect to take them absolutely everywhere, and everyone else just has to put up with it.

Surely it’s not unreasonable to have more dog-free indoor spaces again?

That should read, if inclusive environments were considered where I live, that would be a compromise but they aren't, everywhere is set up for the dog owners and their needs.

I've only seen one service dog in about 5 years. Obviously, if you open up everywhere to dogs, the likelihood of being wheezy and perhaps experiencing an asthma attack is very much more possible. Service dogs are just not that regular an occurrence for this to be life limiting, dogs everywhere, with no zones for those who can't be or don't want to be near them is!

It’s the same where I live - I don’t think there’s a single coffee shop in my local town that doesn’t allow dogs.

I don’t actually mind as long as they’re well-behaved (but an increasing number aren’t, unfortunately), but anyone with allergies / phobias wouldn’t be able to go for a coffee in that town at all.

The argument about service dogs doesn’t really stack up, as there aren’t anywhere near as many service dogs as pet dogs. If only service dogs were allowed, then it would be extremely unlikely to find one in every cafe. I can’t remember the last time I saw a service dog - other than a couple of chihuahuas with service dog vests having a go at every other dog that walked past… (I am not convinced they were genuine service dogs, which of course doesn’t help)

Of course not but if being in proximity to one can kill you, you’d be stuffed if a service dog was sleeping under the table and you didn’t notice it, or if it came in after you. I understand you’re not going to be unable to find a cafe without a service dog, but if the risk is that great, you couldn’t risk one arriving surely?

Where are these mystical places where dogs are allowed absolutely everywhere and roam free? I travel widely through the UK (with dogs) and have to plan very carefully to ensure we’re all allowed!

(Also, @Goldenbear , I may dislike the smell of fish, but shellfish may actually kill me, so I’m not being flippant. Maybe I just don’t assume it’s someone else’s responsibility to provide what I need.)

That's the point though dogs dominate every space now so your choices are very limited. I appreciate that this is great news for dog owners like you who prefer that but other people, even dog owners may think it is better in life to find compromise and try accommodate as many people as possible. Our local pub is considering zoning their pub but it is quite big so can be done. Obviously, if the establishment is too small and they prefer dogs and their owners as the main customer base then that would have to be ruled out by someone like me or even someone who just doesn't want to eat a roast dinner with a dog on a chair behind them curious to eat their food, some people don't like that, it doesn't mean they don't like dogs. I have neighbour with a beautiful sheep dog, he is so well trained and his owner would never have him on a seat eating at the table.

Small town in Sussex in my case. Don’t want to be any more specific than that, as I’m sure you’ll appreciate.

I give up.

Of course it’s more possible, but if jus one dog stops you breathing and there’s a possibility of that dog occurring anywhere, it’s a risk you have to consider surely?

If you’re in a cafe and ‘just one dog’ comes in and it’s a service dog, fine. But if ‘just one dog’ comes in and it’s just someone’s pet cockapoo? Not fine?

But again, what is wrong with compromise, I could still to pubs that I used to go to if there are zones for dogs and people that want to sort away from dogs. I don't and many others don't really need to avoid these places altogether if a bit of consideration happened. All the pubs that are in my city and some restaurants, John Lewis, many cafes are all dog overwhelmed they weren't before COVID. So far supermarkets aren't, I think because of HSE rules but even in Marks food hall i saw a dog in there, TBF to Marks they were asked to take the dog out straight away.

I assume the person who’s seriously allergic would have to leave if a dog came in. Which they may be fine doing when it’s a (rare) service dog, but not if it’s someone’s pet.

I mean this is just bizarre argument isn’t it.

children might come off and sneeze on me while I’m eating if they’re allowed in a pub 🤷🏻‍♀️ if they did I’d ask their carer to collect them. I have a dog but wouldn’t want someone
elses sniffing my dinner. If they did, I’d ask their owner to collect them 🤷🏻‍♀️

no cafe or pub has the motto - come in and let other dogs trample on you, don’t call it out though. You, as an adult and paying customer, are perfectly entitled not to be encroached on. What you’re not entitled to do is dictate who the establishment permits entry to. That’s all 🤷🏻‍♀️

I have a dog but wouldn’t want someone
elses sniffing my dinner. If they did, I’d ask their owner to collect them 🤷🏻‍♀️

Last time I tried that I got a mouthful of abuse. The type of owner who lets their dog annoy others doesn’t seem to take well to being challenged.

Same with some parents letting their kids run around where it’s not really suitable.

And if the rare service dog is napping under the table out of sight when they come in? Are they doing a full reccy before sitting down. If they are fine, I stand corrected 🤷🏻‍♀️

Really this is a conversation to be had with your local business owners isn’t it, it’s not the entitlement of dog owners, they're Only
sticking to the rules set out, they don’t dictate them.

So you try again next time, i must be very fortunate in never having had issue in any of the places I’ve been with dogs jumping all over my dinner.

I had an old man elbow my child out the way at football last week, he was pretty rude when I called him up on it - not sure banning old men from football will get much take up though.

But you are deliberately misinterpreting what I have posted which is that I like many others with this quite common allergy even if they don't have asthma in response, can tolerate being in the vicinity but not next to a dog. The problem exists more and more because the number of dogs that are in places that they previously weren't allowed in. Equally, some people just don't want to be near dogs may e they are scared of them, maybe they find them unhygienic near food. Presumably that's why there are dog free beaches not everyone likes to be near dogs.

And you are missing the point that this isn’t the result of ‘entitled dog owners’ - it’s the result of private businesses making business decisions. As I already said, it would only
become entitlement if they were insisting being allowed to enter somewhere they don’t have the right to be.

But that's a very common scenario not rare at all where I am as the dogs are treated like children so they sit at the table, they bark at other dogs, they aren't always well trained. Pee on the floor. Yes, the dog owners are acting within their rights, it doesn't make it fair though does it, I am just wondering if the people who do make the decisions on the access could be a little more inclusive and imaginative. Many of the pubs where I live are big enough to zone. I don't really see what's wrong with that.

I didn't state that they were entitled, I am wondering if any thought and compromise could be had rather than just this F You attitude, tough shit. Seems unnecessary.

Yes, exactly, that's the rationale that would have to be applied. It is the case in my City that every pub is dog friendly so you are forever leaving if they come and sit next to you.

It’s not a fuck you attitude though is it? I
just don’t think I understand what you’re suggesting.

businesses allow dogs, but dog owners shouldn’t take their dogs in case someone doesn’t want them there? That’s nuts.

businesses should stop allowing dogs, far more reasonable but clearly there’s a reason they are and they’re the ones that need to be lobbied - not dog owners.

You don’t have a single wetherspoons in
your city?

Yes but would I want to go to it- no.

I am surprised that somewhere has no coffee shops or cafe that are dog free but if that is the case then obviously the owners all feel that they will get more custom by allowing dogs. If one decided to be different because there are supposedly so many people not wanting to go to dog friendly places surely they would make a small fortune?

Don't blame you!