to think it’s time to ban dogs from shops and cafes?

[timetoban]

I’ve just read a BBC article about the increase in dog attacks in the UK.

Dogs seem to be everywhere now. Cafes, shops, even places where food is being served. I’m not anti-dog at all, but I don’t really want to be eating or shopping surrounded by them.

It’s not just about preference either. Some people are allergic, some are genuinely scared, and others just don’t want to deal with barking, smells or dogs getting under their feet. The BBC piece even mentioned people feeling like they have to avoid going out because dogs are everywhere now.

I also don’t really get how it’s hygienic in places serving food. I know people say “well-behaved dogs are fine” but not all dogs are well-behaved, and staff aren’t exactly going to challenge every owner.

Before anyone says it, yes obviously assistance dogs are different and should be allowed. That’s not what I mean.

I just feel like we’ve swung too far the other way where dog owners expect to take them absolutely everywhere, and everyone else just has to put up with it.

Surely it’s not unreasonable to have more dog-free indoor spaces again?

Out of interest in all these places swamped with dogs you’re forced to frequent…when these monstrous beasts are blocking every possible route, do their owners all refuse to move them?

I agree @Wolfiefan , but these threads are where logic goes when it needs a day off.

I would love to come across a pair of giant dogs in a cafe!

@Tutorpuzzle as the weather improves you might find me sitting outside! I love my dogs and they are well behaved but they are still giant hairy beasts!

Dogs don't have legally equivalent rights to human children so that's not really a comparable argument.

It is. It’s making the point that if a place doesn’t cater to your needs then you go elsewhere. Not stamp your feet like big entitled babies.

You don’t need legally equivalent rights in order for a cafe to ban them.

This is about preference on the part of the user. If you have a preference which isn’t protected law (and the right to use a cafe free from dogs is not enshrined in law), then it’s up to you to find somewhere that suits you.

Yes but you don't always know. I went to Bills restaurant, it didn't even have an outside eating area and I realised when I stated to wheeze as have asthma from dogs that there was one right behind me. We asked to be moved and although the waitress was nice about it the manager was a bit uppity and despite having loads of empty tables away from the dog made out there was only one other alternative. Obviously, I will never be going again. Every pub (all serving food) in my City allows dogs so I just have to risk it if I want to go to a pub ever again. I was at a local one recently, no dogs and then a family come in for a meal sat on the table next to us and we were on a table for two next to a walk so our only access to leave was the side of the family, despite being a family of three the Dad dumped te dog bed he had brought with him nearest to us so I was trapped, when I got up to go he didn't even offer to move the dog and just gave me a grumpy look, I nearly fell over the round shaggy small dog, absolutely ridiculous when he could have just put the bed on the empty side of the table! I think dogs are nice enough mostly but I can't breath around them. Dog free beaches are the same, they are never dog free anymore.

I was in a small town branch of Subway the other day and a couple had their v small dog sitting on the table! The staff were oblivious/ didn't care. Certainly no tables were getting cleaned in between customers.

Yes but where I live that dog free option doesn't exist unless you go to a high end restaurant or for Asian food.

I can’t believe in an entire city there is not one dog free pub. I too have asthma and carry an inhaler at all times. I react badly to golden retrievers. But wouldn’t on a beach because of all the fresh air (aka wind!)

Well surely if you have dog onset asthma, you can’t go anywhere as service dogs have no limitations. Just as likely to be in the doctors or opticians as a cafe or restaurant.

I don't get asthma on a beach but a couple of times my husband has taken the kids out and had a picnic slobbered on. He definitely says something but he shouldn't have to if on a dog free beach to avoid your picnic being slobbered on. Or should we just stay home.

I can move in away from the dogs a long as far away enough. It would be good if there was a dog bit of a pub and none dog bit as standard I think. Despite your questioning tone many people die from asthma attacks so why is not acceptable to think of inclusive solutions

Of course dogs shouldn’t be on a dog free beach. That’s not the same as a cafe that allows dogs though.

And what if it isn’t big enough? Well aware asthma kills, so do allergies, so people that have them have to manage their own limitations - ie not eat out if they can’t be sure the food is safe.

The inclusive suggestion would be that blind people don’t take their dogs into public spaces? Or only business’ with a square footage over a certain amount allow them?

Picnic

So this isn’t about your allergy. But about people not having their dogs under control and the fact you don’t like dogs?

Eh? I literally described the wheezing and asthma brought about by being too close to a dog. I think about inclusivity rather than along extremes as personally I don't think compromise is a bad thing.

I mean your response is pretty selfish really. Maybe look at whether your obdurate thinking on people with allergies being isolated is fair and reasonable.

I have only ever seen one service dog in the last decade, for a death teacher at school.

Oops, deaf not "death".

You’re right, and dog owners compromise by going into dog friendly places. Which are still fewer than those that don’t allow dogs.

But there are more dog friendly places than there used to be, so people who want dog free have to put a teensy bit of effort into finding them, and it seems to drive them into derangement (on this thread, anyway).

The smell of cooked fish makes me heave, but I wouldn’t demand that a cafe/restaurant stops serving it. I’d be laughed into next week.

Should people take their cats and rabbits with them everywhere if not why not?

Don’t come to Whitstable you might have a conniption, regularly meet a huge bunny, in his harness and lead, on our early morning beach walk.
Anyway, I’m off for a walk in the sun and a lovely roast dinner, with DH and our gorgeous golden retriever. I can tick off the bingo card (except the bored bit, he definitely isn’t bored) so I feel vindicated, cheers. 🍻

Is it selfish? If someone has life threatening allergies they are likely to not want to risk eating somewhere that can’t guarantee to keep them alive?

if someone has life threatening dog induced asthma, they’re likely not to be able to frequent public spaces as service dogs are allowed everywhere by law.

where’s my selfishness in either of those statements.

I suppose it comes down to whether you think assistance dogs are more important to protect in law than people’s allergies/illnesses. I think it’s unlikely we can ever ban all allergens/illnesses inducers from all environments so it might be hard to enforce?

I’ve not placed any lack of value on someone’s suffering from asthma etc, but the reality at present is in the UK service dogs go anywhere and your asthma isn’t going to be able to distinguish between employed and unemployed dogs, so from a logical thinking perspective- if a cafe owner HAS to permit service dogs, there’s no additional risk by permitting non service dogs, if it increases their custom - or if the just really love looking at dogs.

Well no, that's the point there is no compromise, there is no imaginative thinking on this, if there was inclusive environments would be considered where I live everywhere is set up for dogs and their owners.

Equally, your dislike for the smell of fish is not comparable to not being able to breath!

Every single establishment in your local area allows dogs? Blimey.

I dont think you’ve the use of compromise. Dog owners can’t just bowl int any establishment and demand they accommodate their dog. They have to choose places that have decided they’ll allow dogs. You on the other hand, have the freedom to choose from any establishment that allows humans - you can discount those you don’t like (be that for dog based reasons or anything else). But you have the choice to do that becuase you are allowed everywhere, dogs are not.

None of that takes away from the fact that service dogs are allowed everywhere and have been for decades, so dogs being in spaces you might also be in is not a new issue.