Another child killed by a dog...

[tnorfotkcab]

Another poor child is killed by a dog.... We already know this is an XL Bully, don't even have to wait for confirmation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35zkl9dg3o

I think some people are not arguing in good faith. And a great many people need to buy "statistics for dummies" and not come back to this thread until they've read it.

Ain't that the truth? 😂

It happens on MN a lot, not just this thread or this topic. As the saying goes, you can't argue with stupid.

Either that or it's just people being disengenuous and obtuse by throwing straw men our way.

Why are you still directing this stuff at me?

I DID NOT SAY IT.
IT IS NOT MY CONSPIRACY THEORY.

"cool your jets" was in reference to you jumping to grilling me, rather than checking that I was the user who originally posted with the barriers idea. Perhaps I should've been more rudely direct.

Typically because the dog is probably fairly good in many of these circumstances and has tolerated discomfort 1000s of times before the one they snapped.

I have rottweilers. There are lots of "influencers" with rottweilers. The whole "rottie grumble" thing is a bugbear of mine. Some people (a lot of people) are mistaking growling for this "rottie grumble" which is more like a purr.

There is also another woman whose whole channel is focused around the fact her rottie not liking her (male) fiancé (and men generally). Now, she may carefully edit the footage to make it seem like there whole interaction is the dog making it very clear in doggy language that he isnt into the man and resource guarding the woman.

I am waiting to hear of the fallout of this.

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/18KU2nAEoU/

And he is trained, but if my reply had been "I can control him because he is trained to come, sit, down, stay, come to my side and press his nose to my palm, and settle on command," posters would have accepted that or would they have insisted that one day his training will fail and he will eat me?

The harness and head collar are secondary tools to his training and are there as a "just in case" rather than something I put all of my faith into or rely on fully. He does pull on his lead, so the head collar helps with that.

I could train him to not pull, but a) it doesn't bother me, and b) he will come to my side and put his nose to my palm when I need him under close control, such as when we are passing a child, so I don't feel like resolving the pulling is a massive priority. I'd prefer to spend time playing scent games with him and teaching him useful things like putting his toys away and closing doors after he opens them. I might get around to teaching him heel one day, I might not.

I don't even think they lie. I suspect that most people, including a lot of dog owners, miss signs that a dog is uncomfortable in a situation. These signs include:

• yawning
• licking their lips (when there is no food offered)
• displaying the whites of their eyes
• leaning and looking away from a person
• stiffening posture

www.pdsa.org.uk/pet-help-and-advice/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/5-things-your-dog-is-trying-to-tell-you

Because they lie, but also because they've completely missed or misinterpreted the million and one indications the dog gave that it was uncomfortable.

A bite is always the last resort for any breed; some may escalate quicker than others, but the warnings beforehand are always there.

Yeah, so doesn't that tell you that it's not always possible for a human to spot all those warning signs, so we need a different strategy to stop these attacks? As I said above, it's arrogant for an owner to state that they are completely infallible and will never miss a sign or make a mistake.

If missing the warning signs leads to an injury or fatality then the animal is not suited to being kept as a pet.

No, it tells me that people need to be educated about canine behaviour and management. People don't miss the signs because they are impossible/hard for us to spot; they miss them because they don't know what they are.

Yes. I think that’s also true. In many cases though, comments from neighbours etc suggest previous issues regardless of what the owners say.

Yes but even educated people can be distracted, tired, busy with something else, in another room, drunk, asleep, etc etc.

It seems like a poor public health strategy to allow children to be in situations where the only thing between them and death is an adult who must be fully vigilant and watching the dog at all times.

You need to chill down. You quoted me abd I quoted you. There’s nothing more to it.

Are you a fan of the XL bully?

All this tells me is that you don't know enough about canine behaviour and management yourself.

The point of knowing the signs is not to prevent a bite at the last minute. It is to intervene and manage the situation before it escalates by teaching the child and dog how to interact safely.

If, for example, your dog displays signs it is uncomfortable just because the child is present you would ensure the dog has a safe place it can escape to, is never unsupervised with or forced to interact with the child (which shouldn't happen ever) and you would start working with a trainer to counter-condition and build the dog's confidence around the child.

Educated people wouldn't be drunk in charge of a dog and a child. They'd have them separated. Ditto being in another room, someone educated in managing dogs properly would have the dog in the other room with them, away from the child.

You're right, I don't know a lot about "canine behaviour management." But I am able to assess an overall situation logically. Literally nothing you've said refutes my position that owners of this type of dog are arrogantly assuming their education and experience makes them infallible, and they're betting their children's lives on it. I've read nothing to convince me this is not objectively ridiculous.

The problem is there is no protection in the home for children or vulnerable adults. If adults are stupid enough to have an XL bully in their home that's up to them but the children have no choice. The pictures on social media of babies and small children lying with an XL bully make my blood run cold.
There was a 9 month old little girl in my city who was killed by a Malinos a couple of years ago. Her parents were in the same room but couldn't get to the dog in time - the dog bit once but it caused a severe head injury and she died on the way to hospital.
Children have to be protected in their own homes from dangerous dogs and stupid parents

canine behaviour management?

Manage this, don't have a semi wild animal bred to kill near a child.

There’s certainly an argument that people with very young children shouldn’t have dogs.

Agree, but feel we’d be in the minority!

Because sadly (and frighteningly) in many cases they have to give the dog back to their owner after the investigation! They will only be euthanised if they are proved to be a banned XL or have harmed someone. In the article it explains that a lot of these dogs have just been seized for other reasons and if they are not a banned XL then they are eventually returned…. After months in kennels where they’re becoming ever more stressed and aggressive, they are allowed back to a “family” life in a house in a street like yours or mine. It’s beyond ridiculous!!

25 million pounds. Could build a hospital with that money

Oh, another soft, soppy, cuddly bully that would never hurt a fly?

As ever. 🙄

Social services should be able to intervene imo
Remove the dog and the bloody idiot at the end of the lead that thought it was a good idea around his kids

The poor child.

The government should have made regular training classes a stipulation of the exemption. And if the owners can't afford it, they shouldn't have such a powerful dog. Unfortunately near me they all seem to owned by inexperienced owners. I've been bitten by terriers, a lab and a rottweiler. The damage doesn't compare to what an XL bully is capable of inflicting.

If the dog is deemed to be a threat but the breed alone is not an indicator of the dog being a threat. There are 57,000 XL bullies registered in the UK, and 167 reported attacks by XL Bullies (and estimated to be as many as 100,000 XL bullies in the UK overall). Which means that less than 0.29% of XL Bully dog type dogs have been involved in an attack.

If breed alone is a determining factor, why haven't the other 99% of them attacked?