AIBU to think Merlin Ride Access passes are unfairly judged?

[Festivalfanatic]

We went to one of the Merlin parks Easter weekend and over the years I’ve seen many people get angry at Ride access lines and nothing has changed it seems.
this particular day it seemed everyone was on their high horse about it. Including one man exclaiming to his wife “ they let too many specials in “
then social media the last few days now the parks are open have loads of videos about RAP “ queue Jumpers “.

My DD has a RAP card and we wait just as long as everyone else sometimes longer than others to get on rides. It’s not instant access.

the pass times out for the length of time that the main line states and then you can’t use it again until it times back in. Then when it does time back in you have to go and scan in the ride you want and then there is also a line ( ok not as long as the main line ) but we will have to wait that amount of time anyway. Plus the waiting time in the RAP line. They do not let all the RAP line in its usually 1-2 at a time per ride. The rest is from the main line and then we get timed out for the length of time the queue indicates on top of the time we have already waited.
how would removing it or it not existing help the main line ? It would just actually make it longer so you would still be waiting averagely longer to ride anyway !
why do people judge it so much ?

what is the alternative ?

I completely agree it's awful. I don't think the nimbus access card has helped either. It's too easy for people to get the queuing symbol especially when they pay the £15 for the card.

In an ideal world all the lines would be wheelchair accessible which would remove those with physical disabilities from RAP to reduce numbers but I don't believe this is the real issue.

On Wickerman's opening day the RAP queue was three hours! We went to a different theme park to take advantage of those going to AT. All of the people in that queue should have had RAP removed as they've proven they can wait.

Physical disabilities doesn't only mean those in wheelchairs. I have arthritis and struggle to stand more than 5-10 mins, it causes a lot if pain and then I struggle to continue with our day.

What they actually need to do is place a limit on number of visits during peak times - each user gets a specific number of peak visits (weekends and school holidays) and unlimited/a larger number of off peak visits. Which would reduce overall numbers and RAP queue lengths. I know people will claim that is discrimination too, and they are right, but the current RAP system is not workable for those of us who truly cannot queue. Those who can queue (although not queue an hour plus)are getting to go and those who really can't are not.

They also need to tighten up the criteria away from diagnosis - my daughters friend has adhd, they can queue fine. My daughter has ASD, she can queue, my friends son has ASD, he really can't. It should require a specific letter saying why -"'Millie can't queue due to a bowel condition which means she has to go urgently' 'Alex can't queue as he finds waiting very challenging due to his ASD and will self harm if made to wait longer than X number of minutes'

I think letters would cause an issue as people may have to pay for them and some dr's can be very helpful in this regard.

I think a social care letter/ assessment or a blue badge would be the best proof. As bb's can be given by LA's for non physical conditions as well as physical and the majority of people who genuinely struggle to queue because of cognitive needs generally have some sort of social care intervention as they'll have that struggle not just in theme parks.

I think a person should be allowed out of the queue for the toilet and then to return to the rest of their party.

I take your point about not all people with physical disabilities using a wheelchair but using a wheelchair is a reasonable adjustment for the majority of people who physically can't stand for long periods of time.

This has been implemented in the Disney US parks who now heavily restrict their disability pass to mainly people with severe autism/ ld. Physical disabilities, diabetes, cancer, crohns etc don't qualify. Even some children who have been make a wish don't qualify for DAS under the new criteria. You have to be interviewed for the DAS and possibly passed to a 'medical prof' during the interview. You can only apply for it twice in six months, if you're turned down on both tries you can't ask again. The logic being that people make the decision to go to their parks knowing about weather, heat, toileting needs, queues etc people with severe cognitive needs don't make these decisions for themselves and don't understand the concept of queuing. I think Disney in the US have it right to be honest.

Just to add Disney do offer other accomodations such as return to queue (if you need to leave the queue then come back) or for the majority of the party to queue then the person with needs plus one other can join them near the front.

I think that's terrible that they don't make allowances for other disabilities, especially palliative. I think we need to get away from it being condition specific, and make it need specific.

No, a wheelchair is not a reasonable adjustment for me, it disables me more, when the aim of adjustments is to reduce the impact of disabilities on a person's daily life.

In terms of decision making - if we are talking about a child needing the DAS - the same could be said - their parents are making the decision based on knowledge about what the trip involves. I dont believe they should be denied that opportunity, bit I also believe physical and medical disabilities have equal validity in terms of gaining access.

Toileting- an adult with crohns takes 2 young children on their own - who will hold the place in the queue?

Not everyone who needs RAP is known to social care or meets threshold for a blue badge. It could be a letter from social care yes, but letters from health professionals are equally valid.

But then you're back to the same situation we're in now.

Reasonable adjustments don't have to be what the disabled person wants. Ultimately if they did make all the queues accessible they could implement that (I don't think they'll change the queue lines, tbey don't even make queues for new rides accessible).

Not all make a wish kids are on palliative care. They get better access than DAS while on their MAW trip but disney applies the same rules to children as everybody else.

Yes I agree parents of small children should make decisions in the childs best interests and take other factors into account, this doesn't happen though.

If somebody genuinely can't queue then they would have problems in wider society not just theme parks. Social care or a blue badge is the best way of restricting RAP to those who really need it.

Blue badges can be given without meeting the automatic qualification. People can apply to the LA directly.

Disney have made it need specific. They've just made different adjustments for different people depending on need.

Disney made the changes because of the abuse of the system. People were hiring themselves out for others to take with them to get use of their DAS.

RAP can't just be given to everyone who says they need it as it defeats it's purpose. At the moment the system doesn't work and there is huge amounts of abuse.

Sorry for the many posts..
In regards to health care letters, they did previously accept these before they contracted out nimbus. However what was happening was people were making letters at home or using their friends letter. There were facebook groups discussing how to do it. So no healthcare letters aren't a good idea.

I'm not suggesting we keep the same situation,

• we tighten up the process and increase the threshold, keeping it need rather than condition based.

• Blocking the use of multiple passes per family - the abuse with this is crazy - I saw a family using 3 passes so no wait

-We reduce the number available so all RAP queues are shorter, and implement a priority system - where those who haven't been able to get a RAP pass in the last X amount of time get priority, and it opens to everyone else 48 hours before.

-Limited number of rides per day per RAP/limited goes on the most popular rides

-The old RAP system at legoland and chessington worked much better - it only let a certain number people request RAP per ride, and once that number reached it stopped people booking on it. I could check if before walking across the park to a ride, and queues were much shorter than now.

'Reasonable adjustments don't have to be what the disabled person wants' - really? Involving disabled people and/or their families in decisions around what works for them is a cornerstone of effective care and support - what is the point of giving someone something which doesn't actually meet their needs?

I agree the person and their loved ones should be the cornerstone of everything to do with a disabled persons care but we are talking about a business and a system which has been abused.

If somebody cannot walk very far or stand for a long period of time and are offered a wheelchair which would meet that need. They shouldn't then be abke to say no because they prefer the RAP which would also meet their needs but means they don't have to sit in the queues like everyone else.

I fully understand it, I would prefer RAP too and can see the argument of even if a queue can take wheelchairs maybe it's not the best pmace for their users (exiting in an emergency, people nearly sitting on them because they stand so close or worse nend over them so their bum is in their face). Wheelchairs are what Disney US advise people with physical needs to use as a way of meeting their needs rather than offering DAS to them as this means they can then go in the main queues.

There are many ways that I would prefer my sons needs to be met but those aren't the adjustments offered by businesses. It isn't about giving the person what they want it's about meeting their need.

It is ultimately a capacity and park management issue.

Some parks oversell their capacity, then upsell fast track making lines very long. Some parks will allow one person with a RAP to take multiple guests with them on the ride meaning in some cases half the ride is full of RAP and their guests. Not all rides are well managed so sometimes full trains are sent round full of fast track and RAP users whilst people have been queueing.

Parks would be far better allowing all guests virtual queuing but that would hit their fast track pass sales and abolishing RAP. Instead offering SEND days. This way people could virtually queue for rides but also ride less popular rides and do things like eat lunch whilst waiting. This is where lots of people feel injustice as with virtual queuing you can queue for one ride but ride other rides with shorter wait times or have lunch and you have not wasted that 90 mins. It would still be inclusive if all guests had virtual queuing.

The problem with the RAP is there is a whole well known section on the internet dedicated to explaining how to game the system to get one, although recently they have tightened up. Then how to "make the most of them" by stacking rides on multiple RAPs, taking on multiple "carers" with them, scanning in and riding other rides whilst waiting and other "hacks". Then there are the people who have them that "pimp" themselves out for a cost allowing someone to be their guest.

The parks use the queues as holding places for customers. If they use a virtual system they would have to reduce capicity as there wouldn't be enough room for all the people who would have been in queues.

So do you mean virtual queuing for all rides or just the big ones? If 80% of the parks capacity is in a virtual queue then they are also all now trying to ride the smaller rides. So the queues for the smaller rides are now absolutely huge. So disabled people will then be complaining they can’t queue for those and will be asking for a RAP for the smaller rides!

I’m also going to copy and paste what I wrote a while back about why a full virtual queue system just couldn’t work.

Why can’t everyone use a virtual queue for every ride? It just wouldn’t work. As the poster above says, where would all these people go? If you average 1 ride an hour for an 8 hour day you’ll spend at least 45 minutes of each hour in a queue for each ride. The rest of the time will be walking between rides or quickly popping to the loo or to get food. If you now don’t queue, for each hour you only queue and ride for maybe 15 minutes max. What are you doing for the other 45 minutes? Which is about 6 hours in a day!! What are thousands of people going to be doing?? Just sitting about? Where? Should they build massive waiting benches? Or a big school hall type place where you just “wait” until your next ride? Yes you can walk about a bit and maybe get some food. But not for 6 hours! So they build more things to do. Like the fun fair games they have already. Now you have thousands of people all queuing for these games. But the disabled people can’t access them because they can’t queue for the length of time it takes. So what? We now bring back RAP so they can get to the front of those queues? Because all you’ve done is move the ride queues to another place.
The other issue would be capacity for virtual queues. Are people allowed to book more than one slot per ride? Or are you limited to one each per ride? What if your favourite ride or two are sold out but you already have entry tickets booked? Waste of money there. What if an autistic child or adult only wants to ride Nemesis over and over all day. It’s their favourite ride. But all but one slot is taken. And oh dear the ride broke down at the point. Bad luck. They don’t get to ride it at all that day now.

So it really isn’t as simple as “let’s make it equal for everyone so no one complains”. Theme parks are a business. They are there to make money. If they severely reduce capacity they’ll likely end up going under or just closing because who would bother running a business for no profit. If they reduce capacity for RAP they’ll get complaints. If they make an entire virtual queue system they’ll just move the thousands of people to another “queue” for something else while they wait. Whether that’s games or a play park or smaller rides. They physically wouldn’t have enough seats for everyone so disabled people would want priority for those. So there would still be complaints. Honestly there’s a reason the theme park model is pretty much exactly the same the world over. It works most of the time.