School as child care

[Differentforgirls]

From another thread.

A poster said that state schools are there for helping parents to work. Therefore teachers are childminders. Teachers!

I think schools are there to educate our children and, though the staff go above and beyond these days, that is their primary function.

AIBU?

This seems a weird thing to get wound up about. I am sure most people acknowledge that teachers are there to educate children. Most people can also acknowledge that since I don’t have to accompany my child to school, that also allows me time to work or have some free time. This is not something you can debate, it’s a fact.

Parents are not required to accompany their children during school hours, therefore they are being taken care of my someone else (the school)/ It’s not their primary reason for being that doesn’t make it any less true.

I’ve been teaching for nearly 20 years, and I’ve noticed a huge increase in the expectations placed on schools for things that I consider basic parenting.

Toilet training, riding a bike, tying shoelaces, feeding them healthy meals, basic hygiene… the government once even floated the idea of teachers overseeing teeth brushing at school!

So yes, OP, unfortunately schools have become childcare and in some cases, even replace basic parenting duties.

In an ideal world, the school day would be much shorter, and parents would be far more involved and engaged in their child’s education. But the reality is that two incomes are needed to survive, and parents are just not able to give the time and energy that they would like to. I say this as a full-time working parent of 3 young dc.

Well who takes care of a child while they're at school?

Are non of your kids school age? Who cares for them while you are working?

Are you asking about opinions, or telling people they are wrong?

School has two purposes. Education and taking care of children to free workforce.

Breakfast clubs, after school clubs, supervised lunch times - that happens in school and serves only the childcare aspect.

It might be better to acknowledge the dual function and have both in mind when changing things around schools.

It is though. You can claim it's not all you want but the DWP expect you to work if your child is in school, during COVID key workers children had to go to school ergo school is a form of childcare with the primary aim of educating children.

But at the time we were encouraging kids to go school, parents weren't staying home to look after kids- kids were going to work with their parents!

It's recent years that people have started equating school with childcare.

I'm secondary, so a bit different, but I go to school to teach. Yes, I have to ensure that students don't come to harm, but I didn't go into teaching to care for children; I did it to impart knowledge. I mean, I was massively conned there,..... but still.

I never saw school as childcare and still don't; I paid for childcare, but not for school. And once mine got to 11, I didn't use childcare at all.

Schools are obviously primarily and most importantly there to educate children, but I don’t see why there’s any real tension here?

Yes a handful of parents will want too much from them, but am I supposed to sit at home twiddling my thumbs while they’re at school or would you mind if I go to work and earn the money required to house/feed/clothe them?

Of course one of the other functions the school happens to serve is to care for the child 30+ hours per week.

I don’t know about other people but I definitely bring my DC up ( and worked )

Surely it’s a bit of both. Although increasingly I think it’s heading more towards childcare, with fewer qualified teachers, and more emphasis on things like teeth cleaning etc.

Not to be a downer, but when the sen reforms come in, you will have more sen children in the class in the name of "inclusion". I can't imagine that in a school that can't afford heating, or to feed the children, the extra money will be used to make the necessary individual adjustments. I am hugely thankful that my children were given ehcp's early enough, as they are now in, or on the waiting list for, suitable provision. The poor mainstream school no longer has to spend huge amounts of time and resources on them and everyone is happier when needs are being met.

Because childcare is deemed as a lowly profession whilst teaching is a professional profession don't you know.

All the 'educators' wouldn't want to be mistaken for a childcare worker.

They attend the school I teach at. Youngest is in the nursery attached to the school.

So only those rich fortunate enough to not have to work at all, or those who have a guaranteed 9:15-2:45 Monday - Friday job should be allowed to have kids?

Is that what you are saying OP? Effectively only a tiny percentage of the population should be allowed to procreate? Or should half of the work force aged roughly 25-40 quit to facilitate this?

No need for common sense!

Of course it’s a bit of both. Can’t educate without looking after the kids too!

that’s what policies, rules and safeguarding procedures are there for. To keep them safe. Education is more than just academics. It’s also life skills and social skills.

some kids need a bit more care than others - this builds their confidence and independence.

I couldn’t work if kids not in school - so it’s a form of childcare. If not we’d all be expected to go into school with them. We hand them over each day and trust them to keep them safe as well as teach.

childminders and nurseries still teach btw!

There is an expectation for parents claiming UC to work the hours DC are at school so yes the government do view schools as childcare. They are in Loco Parentis. If this was not the case parents would be expected to accompany their DC to school or employ someone to do so.

Yes @HarryVanderspeigleI know.
I can’t see how on earth it will work.
Currently 58% of my class have SEN then there are a couple more that I’m watching / need extra support. It’s not manageable currently. And that’s not to say that they shouldn’t be in mainstream / that I don’t enjoy teaching them - it’s just soul destroying to let a significant proportion of the children down each day as there just isn’t enough of me to go around!
True inclusion is everyone getting what they need to be successful - currently no one is!
Once upon a time some parents would have complained- certainly about one child in particular, who is disruptive, challenging (PDA profile) and frequently leads to the room having to be evacuated. To date, there has been only one complaint about him and it was only that he was given his own table 🙄

School isn’t childcare. I arrange childcare around school. But it should be pretty fucking obvious to anyone with a braincell that if a school cannot provide some sort of supervision in the hours I expect them to be there, especially at very short notice, it’s going to create a childcare problem. So shouting school isn’t childcare when I’m already at work isn’t very helpful.

I think schools are the only state infrastructure aimed at kids and families that has been left (sort of) in tact since the cuts and austerity began. We used to have sure start, play and youth clubs, more family support workers etc. This means schools have had to become a one stop shop for everything - feeding kids, supporting families, referring to other services, after school and holiday play. It’s hard on schools, particularly because they used to draw on so many local authority services that no longer exist.

This. Primary teachers want to distinguish themselves from nursery workers so they can be paid more even though they both teach the same curriculum. It's pure snobbery. Universal education was established in the western world to facilitate parents working outside the home, it was always about childcare.

Prick.

I agree that a schools main function is not, nor should it be seen to be childcare.

However, look at the much bigger picture.

Parents are doing what they can to meet the needs of their children, and much of those needs involve sleeping somewhere warm and safe, keeping them free from bacteria and disease, feeding them and helping them to have as enjoyable a life as they can, whilst teaching them about responsibility and preparing them for eventual adulthood.
Much of those things require most parents to work in order to fulfil those functions, because of the cost of living.

What do you suggest parents do instead of using school as a form of childcare alongside other forms of childcare when their children are not in school?

And I may be recalling this wrong, but didn't the prime minister make it abundantly clear in one of his speeches during covid that school was in fact to be considered child care? Or am I imagining that speech?

I live in Belgium and state schools are generally open between 7.30 and 18.00 / 18.30. Before and after school care and lunchtimes (and Wednesday afternoons when there is no school) is covered by council employed staff at very low cost to parents. Those same staff also cover the school holiday clubs which tend to be divided up between the local schools. Teachers teach during school hours. The support staff cover the out of hours. Kindergarten (from 2.5 years old) runs along the same lines. These are lead by uni educated early years teachers and again support staff cover the non-teaching time. It is of course subsidised. I wouldn't say it's perfect but bloody hell it is what is needed these days to support working parents.

Of course the higher purpose of schools is education and the development and welfare of the future population.

However the way the format of schools has developed is a combination of a need for universal standards, preparing a future workforce and providing the current workforce with childcare so they can work.

Why is school Monday to Friday?
Why one big block in the centre of the day?

Is this the most effective way of providing an education? Or is it the most convenient for other reasons?